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Tell them about tax forms hell

by
2nd Jul 2015
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Judging from the reaction to HMRC forms: Frustration and confusion, accountants are fed-up with HMRC forms that don’t work with standard software, can’t be printed out, or lose all the data for stupid reasons. 

AccountingWEB members Springfield and dmmarler want the entire discussion sent to the head of HMRC and to MPs, to show them how HMRC is increasing the tax administration burden for small businesses.

Well, perhaps HMRC should read the thread. Today HMRC have asked me to complete a short online survey about tax administration burdens for small businesses. Perhaps you also received the same email from @HMRCbusinesshelp. 

The survey is actually complied on behalf of the Administrative Burdens Advisory Board (ABAB) which is an independent board that seeks to bring a business perspective to HMRC’s work – and boy, is that needed judging from some of the comments on Accountingweb.

The ABAB is chaired by Teresa Graham CBE, and includes: Rebecca Benneyworth MBE, Paul Aplin OBE (chair of Tax Faculty Technical Committee), Andrew Hubbard (Editor of Taxation Magazine) and John Whiting OBE (Office of Tax Simplification).

I would urge all AccountingWEB members to complete the ABAB survey. There are only four questions, and a large free-form text box to allow you to let rip with your views about HMRC forms, or any other HMRC tax administration procedure (such as telephone/post answering) that drives you crazy.    

If you can’t fit your views in the survey box you could send them by email to the secretary to the ABAB: [email protected]

Rebecca Cave the author of the Tax Advice Network practical tax weekly newsletter.

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Replies (15)

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Jennifer Adams
By Jennifer Adams
02nd Jul 2015 16:20

I completed the survey and directed them to accweb...

I also received the survey this am and as Rebecca says it asks for your opinion on administration. Thats not just form filling in. I had a moan about the usual hanging on the phone, emails/submissions going missing (Letting Property Campaign - filling in the form and submitting by email was Ok - no acknowledgement - but then they sent a letter saying they'd not received it), the nasty DMB people etc etc and said that if they really wanted to find out what agents thought about the failings of HMRC they should view accweb site.

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By Democratus
03rd Jul 2015 13:06

See also Discussion Group thread

on this same topic here

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RLI
By lionofludesch
06th Jul 2015 10:27

Insufficient time

I complained about the CIS, lack of joined-up thinking and online forms.

I could have spent all week complaining about other things but I was waiting to file some RTIs at the time.......

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By jamiea4f
06th Jul 2015 12:21

All that money

HMRC spent on restructuring everything and taking away contact centres seems to have been a complete fiasco.  I recently tried to file online Corporation Tax return for a small company who happened to have share premium, after faffing around for hours trying to find the box to put it in I rang HMRC only to (eventually) be told that there isn't one and I need to use third party software.  All well and good but if you're only charging a small fee then these costs soon mount up....

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Replying to NicoleM:
RLI
By lionofludesch
06th Jul 2015 12:34

Gaining What ?

jamiea4f wrote:

HMRC spent on restructuring everything and taking away contact centres seems to have been a complete fiasco.  I recently tried to file online Corporation Tax return for a small company who happened to have share premium, after faffing around for hours trying to find the box to put it in I rang HMRC only to (eventually) be told that there isn't one and I need to use third party software.  All well and good but if you're only charging a small fee then these costs soon mount up....

And from a Corporation Tax point of view, this would affect the liability in what way ?

Reduce it by the tax relief on the software cost ?

Marvellous !!

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By carnmores
06th Jul 2015 13:21

lion

buy Taxfiler its excellent value for money , are your accounts in xbrl format or do you need software for that 

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By carnmores
06th Jul 2015 13:21

lion

buy Taxfiler its excellent value for money , are your accounts in xbrl format or do you need software for that 

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Replying to Sally26:
RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Jul 2015 13:10

Thanks

carnmores wrote:

buy Taxfiler its excellent value for money , are your accounts in xbrl format or do you need software for that 

Thanks for the recommendation.

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By lme
06th Jul 2015 13:27

forms drive me nuts!

If I have a client who needs to fill in a form I like to have a quick look to check they'll be able to answer everything and so I can tell them what info they need to fill it in. The new forms seem to only let you page forward once all the fields are filled, it drives me nuts every time!

 

Thanks - I will fill in the questionnaire!

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By brucemummery
06th Jul 2015 14:58

tax forms hell

Maintaining a long HMRC/HMIT/HMCE/DHSS/DSS of forms designed to be processed by the recipient rather than completed by the sender. Simple solution:first stage, make all forms downloadable as pdfs, second stage enable taxpayers and agents to send emails to HMRC.

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By pauljohnston
06th Jul 2015 15:47

@1me

To add to your comment - advising the client what HMRC wants on the form when it is not clear by the ambigious question

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By TaxMatters
06th Jul 2015 17:04

Tell them till you are blue in the face

We can complain, talk to them, shout at them - anything and the result will be the same. There will be no movement. HMRC will do whatever they want with no regard for us despite the fact that we take more and more work off them. The only way to get them to change is what I have preached for years DO NOT SUBMIT ELECTRONICALLY. A PAPER PROTEST! If we swamp them in paper then they will start to listen but until then don't waste your time.

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By DCaine
06th Jul 2015 17:49

Already swamped

I think HMRC are already swamped with paper judging by the fact that they seem to be 3 months behind in opening their post.  I different but equally frustrating problem!

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By Marlinman
06th Jul 2015 18:38

Tax Form Hell
Paying tax is bad enough, we shouldn't have to spend our hard earned cash on software to complete their bloody forms.

How about improving their free Self Assessment software to deal with partnership and trust returns. Also IHT 400s don't save data typed into them so you have to do it all in one sitting. Also distribition costs in the corporation tax software.

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By graemep
22nd Jul 2015 08:31

Open standards are the best thing in the long run

I am a software developer, not an accountant, so I have a slightly different perspective.

Open formats using published, non proprietary, formats is definitely better for everyone in the long run than "standard software" (which people here use to mean "most widely used/monopolist's format).

Excel can now save to Open Document (Take a look at the instructions on the MS Office support site https://support.office.com/en-gb/article/Use-Excel-to-open-or-save-a-wor... ), largely because governments have endorsed it.If you are using an old version of Excel there is an Open Document plugin.

It is entirely wrong for the government to encourage use of a particular software supplier, which is what it would do if it required the use of Microsoft formats. (Yes Libre Office etc. can cope with Excel formats, but they have to reverse engineer).

I notice on of the complaints about the PDFs was that they would not work with Firefox's built in PDF reader, which illustrates the point about the importance of compatibility across applications and OSes, but just one vendor's.

Adopting XBRL has the same advantages, but no-one seems to have a problem with that.

Open Document is also a MUCH better archive format than MS Office, because it is far more likely to remain readable in new software.

Interactive PDFs are probably a bad idea, and there should be something better to replace them. Any reason this could not work as a web app running in a browser?
 

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