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The big switch off - great piece of creative accounting

6th Nov 2012
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As the country goes dim and signs multiply along our arterial routes stating "street lamps not in use" , it makes one realise that this is a simple but effective accounting ploy to shift the cost "off balance sheet". The rise in crime and road accidents , which is bound to occur, will appear as somebody else's cost as the electric bills at the town hall drop. Perhaps these incremental costs will be spread so widely amongst so many different people that they will be immaterial and pass unnoticed.

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Replies (21)

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By Knight Rider
06th Nov 2012 12:33

 

 

Why are local authorities introducing traffic lights every few feet which run all day and night even when there is no traffic at the same time as turning off the street lights?

I seem to remember from O level physics that on/off lights use more energy than those on constantly. What is causing the increase in traffic lights at a time when councils are cutting costs (or if there are any councillors reading this - reducing CO2 emmissions)?

 

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
06th Nov 2012 14:45

The spread of traffic lights

I have also noticed this creep of autmated traffic signals (I do believe that ATS is the real term and

it is  nursery school speak to call them traffic lights) and I suspect it is part of the central government attmept to discourage us using the horseless carriage , just like painting ghost islands down the middle of the road instead of having an extra lane like the good old days.

If I was in power I would rip out the "traffic lights" and repalce with roundabouts. I grew up with them on south side of Glasgow - they're great especailly with a hot hatch and an empty road

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By Knight Rider
06th Nov 2012 15:51

Quite agree with you on your creative accounting post - an example of a lack of joined up thinking across central/local government.Surely it must be possible for lights to come on if movement is detected.

But traffic lights have even spread onto roundabouts,motorway sliproads and relatively minor junctions that would be better served with a filter in turn system.Pelican crossings have all but disappeared (perhaps a good thing).

Rising energy costs should encourage local authorities to explore alternatives not just turn things off!!

 

 

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By User deleted
06th Nov 2012 16:47

I Ike traffic lights ...

... :o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbPovgCP5BU

I wish they had street lights on all motorways, when travelling south round Birmingham, it is safe and easy to drive on the lit section, but when they suddenly stop I find driving tiresome, the on coming beams constantly flash at you inducing a hypnotic trance and make your eyes lids heavy and keeping awake becomes a serious problem. 

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By Guardone
06th Nov 2012 21:40

motorway lights

I agree that all motorways should have decent lighting all night long, in wet weather and fog especially.

 

These days, sensors could be installed to detect the traffic and switch on the lights for the next 500 yards, for 20 seconds = about 60mph, if we have to save electric costs. The central barrier could contain red leds, possibly flashing, which would use little power, actually central barriers should have red or maybe pink reflectors built in facing your headlights.

 

I try to get in behind a large lorry and allow him to do the gazing into zero, so all I have to do is follow his tail light when the visibility drops. Better to be slow  than smash into something unexpected.

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By User deleted
06th Nov 2012 21:55

Since the M40 ...

... I don't use the M6/M1 route, but it always seemed to be the place for experimental road devices,  there used to be upright green plastic baton type things sticking up from the centre reserve, these were brilliant as they stopped the lights from the oncoming vehicles dazzling you, but allow passengers to see the scenery during the day as side on at motorway speed they are virtually invisible, these should be on all motorways.

The chevrons on the road there were a good idea too, they also exist on the M4 near Bristol, the simple concept of keeping two in view between you and the car in front for a safe stopping distance is genius.

In an ideal world, the carriage ways on motorways would be spaced further apart, preferably with trees between, like many in mainland Europe, then you can put mainbeam on without worrying about dazzling oncoming drivers.

As regards lights on non-motorways, I prefer none as the nature of these roads mean that they keep you awake concentrating on the road and the lights on these types of roads create contrasts of dark and light that make it difficult to tune in to the environment, it also means you can spot oncoming vehicles earlier by their headlights.

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
07th Nov 2012 16:15

Green things and chevrons

I have wondered for many many years why the these green things near M6/M1 in Midlands have not been rolled out elsewhere.

As to chevrons , I think they are a good idea but does one leave just enough for exactly 2 or nearly enough for 3 ?

I think for lighting it is optimal for stretches with and then without so the change keeps one alert, excpet of course on M6 in the Lakes or M74 south Scotland where they would wreck the scenery

I have also noticed that the font on the Scottish overhead signs is much nicer to read and more natural looking than the ones in England which look very digitised and dotty

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Replying to Wanderer:
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By User deleted
07th Nov 2012 16:33

Do you mean chevrons...

Flying Scotsman wrote:

As to chevrons , I think they are a good idea but does one leave just enough for exactly 2 or nearly enough for 3 ?

... or number of cars who will cut in the space left - :o)

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By User deleted
07th Nov 2012 17:15

Ah, over head signs ...

... what a brilliant invention.

I think I am fated to have the lorry of life obsuring the sign post of destiny so I will forever miss my junction - thank God for St Thomas the Second of Garmin, patron saint of drivers, and his decision not to work in his Dad's bread shop, but to go in to porcine twocking instead!

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
08th Nov 2012 11:09

Chevrons

The question remains - do the chevrons reduce rear end shunts in areas where they are used ?

Are there statisics to which the great motoring public may be privileged to see ?

I think that if we could see what does and not does not work we (the public who pay them , the civil servants and boffins) would perhaps use these ingenious devices better.

 

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By justsotax
08th Nov 2012 11:27

Are you suggesting

that we actually review these things to see if they work....(i think that may be lost on our public servants up the food chain.....)

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By User deleted
08th Nov 2012 12:13

This was interesting last night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nt3ys/How_Safe_are_Britains_Roads_Episode_2/ 

This is the first part I need to catch up on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nqccq/How_Safe_are_Britains_Roads_Episode_1/

So, place you bets, how long before insurers won't insure you without a telematics box (or a least price the policies for without out of reach)?

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
08th Nov 2012 16:14

Road safety

I saw episode 1 and the black box idea is interesting . Some certain individuals I know about (ahem) are rumoured to exceed the speed limit on the M6 Toll for example . They have a good record and a clean licence - would the black box penalise them for this errant behaviour ?

Would the black box save me money on the motor I drive the least ? Around town I use a very wee car so my big beast sits on the drive. The difference in insurance between this understandly quite large and as I can only drive 1 motor at a time why should I pay full whack on both of them ?

Does the black box know how many passengers I am carrying = bigger risk of multiple claims if it is wrapped round a  lamp-post , which may well have been "not in use"  ?

And what if I park it on the local council estate overnight - does the cost go up ?

The permutations are endless but I think overall it is something that appeals to me just like paying road tax per mile driven.

 

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By User deleted
09th Nov 2012 14:46

It may well do ...

... my seat belt alarm goes of if I have something heavy on the passenger seat and the belt is not done up, so the black box could be connected to sensors in the doors and seats to monitor number of passengers, it could be coneected to GPS to record when stationery for long periods in high risk areas.

It could be connected to parking type sensors to guage speed against weight of traffic and with GPS to guage against the road, as you could interpret from the program, 100mph on a flat empty straight motorway can be less risk than 20mph round a tight bend in wet or icy conditions (especilly on hilly roads with a precipice waiting if you get it wrong) - although less risk doesn't equal less severity of outcome when it goes pear shaped.

What was interesting was that road deaths have increased for the first time in decades. One can come to many conclusions on this. One is that driving standards have been declining, but car safety has been improving, with the latter at a higher rate, but, eventually you reach a limit of what you can do to make a car safer and this may have been reached before the limit of how bad drivers can get was reached. Although, interestingly, non British drivers have a disproportionate amount of accidents - draw your own conclusions from that, although in part it may be years of conditioning driving on the wrong side of the road may play a part!

What I did like was the Electronic stability control, and that this will become a legal requirement in new cars shortly - I think not skidding due to sudden steering movements will play a vital part in reducing death and injury. 

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
09th Nov 2012 13:31

Increased road deaths

I blame it on using mobile phones , whether hand held or hands free

I know from my experience and as a passenger it is impossible to do both, it is totally different to listening to the radio or talking to a passenger. So much so I no longer have a hands free in my cars. If it rings I pull up or ignore it

Phone use when driving needs to be illegal with proper fines and points

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By User deleted
09th Nov 2012 14:50

Too right

A police man on the show said he wanted it to be the same as driving uninsured, six points and bigger fine.

Personally, I think it should be a weeks ban, or may be 24 hours detainment, or worse still, have the handset confiscated and number blocked for a week!

It is far worse than no insurance, because not being insured won't make you crash and kill people!

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By Knight Rider
09th Nov 2012 17:13

No more silly unenforceable laws

Surely most people would prefer the Police to be keeping our towns and cities and countryside free of thieves and murderers not photographing people in cars.

When my car was broken into the Police were not interested; simply giving a crime reference and asking if counselling was required. Lets not have any more laws when the Police cannot deal with existing crime levels.

It is perfectly safe to use a phone if stuck in traffic or a hands free in most conditions particularly with more experienced drivers. It is perhaps safer to use a phone than read a map(is anyone proposing map reading to carry a 3 point fine as well?)

Driving without due care is already a criminal offence.

At a time when Government is already too big,the police are under resourced and lights are being turned off to reduce state spending it makes no sense to criminalise even more activities unless they have caused actual damage.

Agree with FS that the black box idea is interesting particularly for younger drivers as long as it is voluntary and viewed by the insurer. If it becomes compulsory or available to Government agencies it could become very sinister indeed.

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
10th Nov 2012 23:28

Police and motorists

Have you not noticed that the traffic cop is an endangered species ?

 I have frequent dealings with the old bill in my capacity as a community watch director /member , and whilst it is traditional for coppers to grumble I do find it astonishing that the number of on-duty pursuit vehicles is so low at night. This is Greater Manchester after all and is not short of crime.

We are across the road from GMP's former training college which is now used as something else by plod , but all too often there are large convoys of shiny traffic cars going in and out and one wonders where they are the rets of the time. If they are unaffordable except for certain operations , perhaps let them keep the money from fining motorists. Put more on the road and "catch" more miscreants and speeders and get back some revenue. It is a fact that the arrest rate shoots up when car are stopped for motoring offences.

I do not profess to be the world's best or most law abiding driver all the time but I know that the law applies to me and if I knew the odds of being nicked were higher perhaps I would be extra careful. After all , driving is a responsiblity that affects others - let's not forget that. 

Last week I was involved in an incident and the attending traffic cop waitied for 30minutes with a suspect in th eback of his motor until a fingerprint machine was brought from around 10 miles away (in rush hour) in an unmarked Audi A6 with 2 officers in it(nice expensive motor) . Not a good use of resources (the cop told me they only have 2 or 3 of them) but the response to the initial call was swift and well managed showing good interaction of stakeholders.

Man acting suspiciously across the road so we rang the council street camera people (whose number I possess ) to train the camera on the man. I watched the camera swivel while on phone (spooky and sinister) and the camera room radiod to plod . The traffic cop had just finished nicking somebody for mobile phone while driving, up the road, and heard the call and turned his motor round. All within minutes.

Kept my staff idle for an hour - must have cost me £100s of pounds in lost productivity.Serves me right for getting involved and spoilt the afternoon of an innocent member of the public. And before you think I am trigger happy , 4 other local businesses had reported the poor chap. It seems that foreigners don't understand certain etiquettes on how not to behave in the high street.

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By Knight Rider
11th Nov 2012 19:07

I was in Manchester last week and purchased birthday card in Morrison's in Salford.Not knowing the area I inquired of the staff where I could find a postbox. I was told there was one on the estate but to wait until the morning before going there. Most people it seems want more police on the streets and perhaps we could have them if the Police made better use of their resources, money was not wasted on cameras and camera control staff and traffic lights were only used on busy junctions.
Incidentally my family and I enjoyed the dock area,trams and Science museum and did see some Police on the beat in Salford quay!

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
12th Nov 2012 09:39

Morrisons and postboxes

When one of my cars was stolen 5 or 6 years ago it was tracked to Morrisons car park in Salford. The arrest featured on a BBC police program, it was great advertising as the vehicle as liveried. Some people are so think as to nick a car plastered with writing.

It would not have helped going in the morning unless it was as the postie came to empty it . Salford letterboxes have a habit of "spontaneous" combustion.

My warehouse is in Salford and we DO NOT go there at night

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By gardenview21
03rd Jul 2013 06:52

Not A Good Idea

Is the country are no longer capable of providing a safe routes. Of course we need street lighting because it is not safe when it is dark. We should shout the need of the safety of the people. If people will not put some lights and particularly the authorities then we will for the good of the community.

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