Dieting - the elephant in the room

I agree with you on this one!

Although I am not dieting, I watched a TV program which examined all the diets, and the clubs such as Weight Watchers. They all make vast amounts of money for the manufacturers/promoters, etc, and many of the diets work while the person is following the diet but as soon as they stop ... the weight rolls back on, often more than before they started.

As you say, the only permanent solution is change of diet/quantity/lifestyle. I am a little lacking in the willpower department, so I can understand the difficulties. It comes down to how much a person REALLY wants to lose weight. If you really, really, want something, and it is within your power to get it, then you should succeed.

Willpower

It is not entirely a matter of willpower. One of the most common mistakes those seeking to eat more healthily make is to replace their crisps & chocolate bars with fruit and nuts etc, not realising that the calorie content of these can be nearly as high therefore someone with the willpower may not get the results they are looking for because of lack of knowledge.

Willpower and knowledge

I am using willpower but it is also combined with knowledge. I have a book that lists calories for practically everything as well as an online resource MyFitnessPal.com. I keep track of the calories I consume as well as carbs, fat, saturated fat, protein and sugar. I am following a diet recommended by Newcastle University. They recommend consuming less than than 800 calories a day. I am consuming about 300 - 500 calories a day and I have been following the diet for three weeks and I have lost 11.2 kg which is more than a pound a day. I have attended BBQs and seen people stuffing themselves but it doesn't bother me. I have developed an interest in food and cooking that I didn't have before - except for eating it! When I reach my ideal weight I aim to dip just below it and then eat my favourite foods but I won't go back to being overweight. Already I feel a lot healthier.

Rubbish

The amount of absolute rubbish especially on the internet regarding dieting, healthy eating drowns out any of the sound advice. Take the five a day con - this is not the result of any scientific study or recommendation from any medical research but a marketing ploy from the US Agricultural Industry.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If we consider Little Johnny's mum who concerned about the amount of time he spends sitting on his chubby backside eating crap and playing his Xbox, who decides the thing to do is replace his coke with "healthy" orange juice and his sweets/crisps with fruit, cereal bars etc she would be horrified to find out she has only marginally improved his nutrution and actually increased his calorie consumption, all from following what she thought was good advice.                                                                                                                                                                    

Whatever works for you

I agree, although it isn't complicated enough to sell stuff, reducing the calories you put in and maintaining a reasonable level of activity to burn a few calories will help you maintain or lose weight.

The problem of course is that, unlike smoking, you can not cut out any addiction to food, you have to eat.  Despite having given up over 30 years ago, I'm still a smoker and I would never have had the will power to cut down, it had to go completely.

For many people (including me) our physiology is still designed for the best part of 200,000 years of hunter gathering whereby, in times of ample food, we'd eat as much as we could, to cope with the next period of famine.  We are now surrounded by the stuff 24 hours a day and, whether I'm buying. growing, preparing, cooking or eating it, I'm pretty much addicted.

Peter's right in saying that you have to understand a lot more about food than just it's calorific value (I'm Vegan and would be silly not to have researched).  The problem is that scientists are still a long way from fully understanding how it all works, plus there's also the fact that eating is mixed up with our social behaviour.

So, like it or not, the reward in pleasure from eating something nice, far outweighs the discomfort of denial or the threat from doctors and so, unless you want a life of misery on cold turkey (or cold cabbage?) will power is not the long term solution for most.

My solution is to take the middle ground of the 2 fast days a week to lose weight & 1 to maintain it.  It seems to have become a fashion (fad?) but it works for me as it makes sense and, when I've reached my next target weight (over several months), I ease off the pedal rather than stop completely, ie it becomes a way of life (and takes hardly any willpower).

If they advertise it isn't good for you.

I heard this the other day and it rings true. Don't eat anything which is heavily advertised so no McDonalds, Coke or even Breakfast Cerials which generally contain a lot of sugar. 

Another point

"Peter's right in saying that you have to understand a lot more about food than just it's calorific value (I'm Vegan and would be silly not to have researched).  The problem is that scientists are still a long way from fully understanding how it all works, plus there's also the fact that eating is mixed up with our social behaviour."

Another point is that a certain substance has a different affect on different people.

5:2 is working for me - just lost my first stone. But then, I didn't drink fizzy drinks before - apart from when being the 'driver' on a night out, so we don't have them in the house.

I work on an industrial park away from anywhere - so, if I don't bring it to work I can't eat it.

If I was working from home I don't think I would ever be out of the biscuit cupboard.

Do you remember the 'finger of fudge' advert from the 70s? That was created in order to spark the idea that between school and dinner was an ok time to eat.

How quaint an idea that seems now - when there is never really a time of day that we don't eat.

By doing 5:2 I am more aware about eating and non eating times of the day. I eat well on the 'normal' days - but the tricky time is between evening meal and bedtime. If I start getting the cheese and crackers out that's the end.

Grazing

When they say we are built for grazing I think they mean vegetables and fruit not burgers, coke and chips. 

3 meals a day?

I am only guessing, but it probably stems from when humans changed from hunter/gatherers to farmers & workers. You can't hunt or gather while working in the fields or factories and eating 3 times per day probably gave enough energy to complete the work hours.

The Belsen Diet.
Eat less. How many fat folks did you see in films of Belsen and Auschwitz?

If dieting worked...............

If dieting worked, there would only ever have been one book on the subject.

It's all about calorie control and portion control.  Personally, I'd like somebody to do for me what I do for my dog - and weigh my food out twice a day, with a daily carrot for a treat!

Willpower

It did not work for me.  From 30 to mid 50's I went from 12 to 21 stone.  As soon as you try to do something getting round it dominates your thoughts and you obsess. Have you ever seen a happy dieter?

Our bodies are programmed to store excess food as fat, not to eat less because historically it would never know when it might next go hungry and rely on those stores.

I tried dieting and hypno therapy and lost hundred of pounds physically and from my wallet but the former came back and the latter did not. 

Eventually with deteriorating health I had gastric by-pass surgery.  Yeah, I know I copped out but it was a seriously hard decision; morbid obesity does not sit well with general anethesia and surgery mortality rate is 1 in 300 with the procedure; I do not know if peritonitis developing afterwards counts towards that figure or is another risk.

Four months on I am 5 stone lighter and still losing weight.  I do not feel hungry on about 1,000 to 1,200 kcals per day and the fridge no longer offers comfort.

I used to think people who moaned they could not lose weight had no self control, willpower call it what you will.  I know I have willpower, 20 years of smoking followed by 27 of not shows that, I just went from 20-30 day to nil from day one.  I feel the human's relationship with food is really complicated, have you noticed how much TV is taken up with cooking?  We are hardwired to eat; have you noticed eating disorders are more not-eating disorders; we refer to obesity as a problem but anorexia as an illness.

I know how I am dealing with it and with the weight loss has come to understand it is us collectively causing the problem with society's conflicting attitudes to food.  Why were people skinnier 50 years ago?  There are so many answers, we had a much larger manual labour force, hobbies were less sedentary, we walked more, we drove less, we did not have central heating so our bodies used more kcals heating themselves, food habits were different - the snack was a new invention; food was more expensive relatively.  I could go on but I already have.

There is no single answer to losing weight.  When someone is drowning you pull them out, not start teaching them to swim but learning to swim as much an answer and you can learn quick if you use willpower.

Finally, at my top weight I was the elephant in the room!

My view

"Our bodies are programmed to store excess food as fat"

Don't blame your body. People are making a conscious decision that has consequences.

"Eventually with deteriorating health I had gastric by-pass surgery.  Yeah, I know I copped out"

"Four months on I am 5 stone lighter and still losing weight.  I do not feel hungry on about 1,000 to 1,200 kcals per day and the fridge no longer offers comfort."

But it worked. That's the main thing.

I have lost 12.5 kg (2 stone) in 24 days through consuming 300-500 calories a day. I feel so much healthier. When I reach my target weight I will only eat a big meal when I go a couple of kgs under my target weight.

grew several inches in height in a space of weeks?

“You seemd to have missed the point I was making.  The body is programmed to store excess food as fat.  If it was not, we would not get fat because the body would not store the excess.  Far from blaming the body, I was identifying what happens.”

What I was saying is that you shouldn’t regularly eat excess food.

“I am not sure it is a simple concious decision, it's far to glib.  Did you make the concious decision to put on the weight in the first place  - you knew eating that amount had consequences?”

The conscious decision is to eat excess food – the result of that is to put on weight. People don’t usually make a conscious decision to put on weight.

“Finally, when you refer to a big meal is that not an admission that you are only making a temporary change to you eating habits and your long term relationship is unchanged?  I'm not trying to score a point here but the reference to a big meal could be reference to having a food treat as a reward.  I might have misunderstood what you mean as you could be saying big meal as meaning bigger than what you are currently having rather than a blow out.”

I am losing a lot of weight now but in future I will eat sensibly followed by eating something I like but only if I maintain my weight at my ideal. Before, I would eat what I liked when I liked. I see that as a permanent change. I don’t want to avoid eating what I like but simply be more sensible overall.

Since I have been dieting I have taken a lot more interest in food!

I'm not convinced

"but at that level of calories your metabolic rate will start to slow.  I know because I was going down at the same rate and the weight loss rate decreased."

I don't think it's metabolism. What causes the reduction in the rate of weight loss is that originally it is subcutaneous fat that is lost and later it is the visceral fat that is reduced but that is harder to dislodge.

Well done - mydog

Well done, mydog.

I also think the amount of food in the media has increased exponentially in my lifetime. You now have whole channels on food etc. Not to mention the concept of 'foodies' - which makes me cringe.

When I was growing up there was probably just Delia popping up each autumn to talk about roast potatoes and the Christmas dinner.

I am having to be a bit careful in my house, because my 6 y/o daughter has started talking about not eating her chocolate rolls - she eats like a sparrow as it is. So, for her, we are firmly following the 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' route.

I am with Peter in that I do pay a lot more attention to what I eat, and have cut out the grazing.

Alternative Diet

I'm on the Whiskey diet. I've already lost two weeks brrrm tsch.

P.S.

Is the  cat dog thing driving something here?

I love how this has generated so much response from everyone.

It is completely true, we eat too much, especially for the fact that most of do not have physically demanding jobs.

My fiance is starting his own personal training business. We both love weight training and we are always get annoyed by people who complain they are overweight and ignore proper advice to eat better and less, but then happily get sucked into Weightwatchers or some other fad diet. The best diet (diet as in what you eat, not going on a diet!) is the one you will stcik to for the rest of your life! You can have a slice of cake when you fancy it, but have some restraint and let it be an actual treat not a regular item in your daily/weekly shop and DO NOT eat a slice of cake just because it is there (ie-someone brings a cake into work). I found that I used to eat a lot of food that I never really enjoyed that much. I now eat a little bit of what I actually do really like and even then I realise that the thought of the taste is often nicer than the actual taste and eating of the treat. I hate that Weightwatchers and Slimming World makes money from peoples vunerability. I would like to see in furture years a big change in our Government and the education system regarding food and our lifestyles. We should all know and understand what macros are, what are food is made up from, what effects they have on our body, how they give us fuel and how to make the right decision, just like we learn how to read and write. That is the future I want for everyone, so that no one is disadvantaged with lack of knowledge or misled because they don't know. The Government in turn would have to change the way Food Manufacturers control us. With misleading marketing, forcing us to buy ready made calorie controlled meals by scaring us that we are unable to calculate the calories and macros in a home made meal and that this is difficult to do.

I hope this improves for everyone. Will Power all the way!!!!!

Great thread

I agree with Ashlea this has developed into a fascinating thread and you could write a book on the social attitudes alone.

I also agree with mydoghasfleas over the huge part psychology has to play and for me, that isn't just in the battle through adding weight but at the pleasure and general feeling of well-being from having lost weight AND in keeping it lost.

As I said above, I consider myself to be addicted to food, and 30 years ago replaced nicotine with carbs, fibre and pulses.  It's ironic that these foods are supposed to be the best at generating the hormone that tells the brain that you are full but, in my case, I can carry on stuffing them and continue to feel hungry, even when my conscious brain is telling me, "this will end in tears".  I'm sure (I hope) others have experienced something similar with Indian food?

Something is overriding the signal and I think it's psychological and the Dopamine I think I'm getting from all that lovely pasta, rice and chips!  (and bread)

I've had to experiment and have found that putting my fork down for even 30 seconds (like my Mum used to nag) can break the cycle, as well as eating highly flavoured or sharp food like a Miso soup or fresh pineapple.

Then there's alcohol, I was on a beer or two followed by the best part of a bottle of red wine a night for a very long time, fortunately I was forced to cut it right down when I started to take Warfarin for an inherited blood disorder.  Had I not done this I honestly think food would have been the least of my problems. I still love the wet stuff but "only" at 1-3 units a day.

As to "why 3 meals a day", one of my relatives is a specialist in eating disorders and says that it's a social product of how we now live our lives compared to even a couple of hundred years ago, this link goes into more detail.  She eats little and often, maybe 6 times a day, spreading it out so that the body can deal properly with it, works for her.

Oh good, another hour of my fast ignored....roll on porridge

Grazing & watering

OGA just to confirm is it you or the dog watering in the garden and do you also ever graze in the garden?

I'm sitting here at the garden table as the sun sets and suddenly remembered I'd not looked at my Tomatoes for 2 days, dashed down to my postage stamp of a plot and there are loads.  I'm on a fast day (no intake from lunch till tomorrow breakfast (aptly named) ) but as I picked them for the fridge, I accidently dropped a few little ones into my mouth, taste buds exploded, so good, sometimes the pleasure is just too good to resist.

OMG the Blueberry bush is looking at me !!!

I'm restricted....

....in so many ways, as well as in having my micro plot and a few pots dotted about, but after a couple of years of nothing, the chillies are producing.  My pots are also welcome and I tried broad beans for me and the blackfly this year and the lunchful they let me keep were lovely.

Back to watering, my neighbour, who hates foxes, told me last week that her son has been visiting regularly to fix up her shed but, at the same time, to relieve himself around the shed to stop the foxes making a den.....she read it in a magazine, has to be male human urine !

I wondered why he jumped when I said hello over the fence.

Funny old world.

Belsen Diet

Hi. Your mother was right. And how can a Blogger be so sensitive as not to want to mention the Belsen and Auchwitz diet. Your father was there. They were facts and he was surely on their diet. There are a lot of people dieting around the world right now.ie. Eating little. (unlike me).