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Fuel bills - is ignorance the real problem ?

29th Oct 2013
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Once again I listened to a radio program about rising energy costs. What really got my goat was that one caller said she went to bed early to keep warm and when asked if she had sought guidance or applied for insultaion grants  she answered in the negative and started giving various excuses why not. The program host did not exactly go out of the way to make it clear she can hardly grumble. In fact she shoul dnot have been allowed on air . .... BBC impartiality ?

It took another caller , who said he wasn't well off but cuts his garment according to his cloth  , to make the point .

I would like to make it clear that living in a cold house is not fun . I have experienced during boiler breakdowns. However , sensible use of central heating to keep a home comfortable and then putting on a jumper as it cools down later in the evening isn't exactly rocket science, but people are howling in protest that they have to put on extra clothing to stay warm.  

I wonder how much is gneuine fuel poverty and how  much is jumping on the bandwagon . Fuel prices are what they are - the market is global , so get used to it and live accordingly.

I had my montly direct debit for heat and light upped to £ 448 per month . I looked at the bills for the past year , which was quite a cold winter, and saw I had used around £2,500 combined and was in credit to the tune of £250 or so. I simply emailed the supplier and lo and behold the direct debit dropped down to £275. Surprise surprise. A few minutes of checking and problem solved. How mnay people are simply not checking their tariffs or payemnts palns but rather jump up and down in righteous indignation at rising costs ?

How many hosues still have the thermostat in the hall , ready to kick in eveyr time the fornt door is opened .

So let's have a sense of proportion in the debate

To add fuel to the fire (no pun intended)  we grumble that the Chinese are takign over our energy supply but we won't allow the domestic suppliers to make th eprofits required to re-invest. 

I declare an interest as a shareholder in Centrica

Good news petrol prices have come down a wee bit . Rejoice ! 

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Replies (20)

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By ShirleyM
29th Oct 2013 14:56

I think there is some merit ...

... in the accusations being made.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/29/energy-firms-raised-prices-as-wholesale-costs-fall

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By Knight Rider
29th Oct 2013 16:19

Transparency

I do think there is a need for greater transparency over the amounts being charged and in particular the amounts that are imposed to cover so called environmental charges.

However no one has a right to a warm home - we all have choices to make.

BBC impartiality !! Ho ho

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
29th Oct 2013 16:30

Environmental charges

This surely has to be one of the century's biggest cons . Let's start investigating here and work backwards to the suppliers' bottom line,

 

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By ShirleyM
29th Oct 2013 16:42

Ah... but ...

The reasons given for the price rises were the environmental charges and the rising wholesale prices.

As I have mentioned before, the monster has been unleashed. They have a captive market, very little in the way of competition, and too much power. They know the government can't really do anything, and if they tried to do anything (eg windfall tax) they will just pump up the prices even further, or, the power companies will hold the country to ransom with power cuts (due to the lack of finance because all the 'finance' will have been stashed in a  foreign country or a fat cats pocket). The government can't even get them to pay taxes! (ok - that last comment was a bit of an exaggeration, but the big companies run rings round the government & HMRC).

All the utility companies that provide essential services are on a sure bet. They can't lose.

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
30th Oct 2013 02:13

Education and encouragement

Petrol prices are down a bit - rejoice? but don't the oil companies need to make a profit to re-invest?

Fossil fuels should be the most expensive fuels and VAT/duty should be applied to keep them high if the monopolies are ever persuaded to cut costs and stop wasting money on bonuses and dividends.

Having said that, it is criminal that in a country like ours maybe 2,000 people a year get hospitalised with hypothermia with some of those going on to die from it.  The elderly (who make up the majority) should be protected from the sort of charges that you & I can afford to pay.

Many elderly stay warm by living in one or two rooms of their house or flat and so are using their fuel wisely but still have to chose between heat & eat.

For other people, say the sort that drive 10mpg Bentleys, I agree they need to find ways to cut down on energy use but ignorance is best dealt with by education and encouragement and not a rant.

If you are reasonably fit, you can actually get used to colder temperatures (there hasn't always been central heating) but we have grown accustomed to 19-20 degrees or higher as "room temperature".  

We should get the equivalent of a feed in tariff if we reduced our use to below a target.  But don't try this at home.

 

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Replying to djtax:
Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
30th Oct 2013 13:08

Not ranting

Well, I wasn't ranting  but expressing frustration at people's failure to help themselves by simply lifting the phone .  A rant is usually poorly worded and fired from the hip but my words were thought through . I had the walk back from home to work to ponder them. No mpg issue here and environmentally sound !

Perhaps education needs to be pushed into people's faces , such as leaflets to every household clearly advising of options and where to ring , freephone of course, for help. The elderly could benefit from home visits to show them how they can make their energy money go further

On the subject of warm buildings I feel ill in most public buildings in the winter. I am not sure if I am a poor barometer 'cos I am walking around in short sleeves , but they are usually 2 or 3 degrees too hot. Public money of course so nobody cares. Last year I was visiting a patient in a brand spanking new hospital and when I passed on thei rrequest for less heat the nurse told me they can't do anything as it is controlled from 20 miles away !!!

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By User deleted
30th Oct 2013 07:49

Way forward which no Government will address ...

@Paul Scholes - as has been discussed before there are simple approaches that can be taken - not immediate but longer term

One of these is PV on every new build from now on (200K new build per annum) - the additonal cost at build stage would not be that great £3-5k which is nothing compared to the house prices. Also this could be funded over x years by some form of payment from tarrif rebate

Would also be a way of moving away from nuclear (and the Chinese/French). Unfortunately there has to be will to do this

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By ShirleyM
30th Oct 2013 15:12

That's ok for you

I think you will find that as you get older you suffer more from the cold, and you tend to feel the cold even more when you are unwell. I see youngsters traipsing round in short sleeves in winter, and used to do the same myself when I was young. I rode my motorbike and horses in the dead of winter in 'normal' clothing.

I would be frozen rigid if I did the same now. But ... so long as you are comfortable to hell with anyone else. Those sick people in hospital can have a dance around to keep themselves warm!

With regards to the idiots ... the press/radio/TV do seem to have a talent for weeding out the best/worst examples to make a 'good' story.

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
30th Oct 2013 16:38

Older people

The sick person is in their 80's ! 

As a rule older people do feel the cold, my Mum being an exception. I have to go round and adjust the heating to stop the pipes freezing in pite of protests. I tell her that the government is paying for the house to be heated , but it's the war generation , not a lot you can do.

The media like a good story and don't let truth get in the way , or the law for that matter , but at least they could listen to tthe callers first or introduce a time lapse so they can stop it running live if necessary. Like most things in life it is the whingers who stand out being heard and it is rarer for those who are happy to say so, which could lead me to another blog topic on its own ....gratitude  .

If people recognised the needs of others more we would be more comfortable. Opening windows and heating is a matter of "give and take" but for some reason it is the cold ones who are in control of the switches and window latches and refuse to budge "because it's winter" , instead of looking at whether there is a need to moderate the sweltering indoor temperature or possibly moving inwards to the middle of the room where it is always hotter.

As the French say "c'est la vie"

 

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By User deleted
31st Oct 2013 11:34

I was in John Lewis on Sunday ...

... looking at TV's (electrical devices that is, not the other sort) but I quickly left with nothing except a great deal of sympathy for lobsters!

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By Knight Rider
31st Oct 2013 14:56

Wartime Generation

My grandparents would walk round a department store to save on heating costs at home and burn logs instead of coal.

There is a disconnect between consuming the electricity/gas and the receiving of the bill. How many of us know what it costs to turn up the heating or boil a kettle? A costed meter should be available from these energy companies. Some legislation for this rather than hidden taxes to subsidise wealthy landowners and build windfarms would be welcome.

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Replying to richardterhorst:
Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
31st Oct 2013 15:37

Knowledge is power

Exactly my point - empower people with knowledge about the real costs. Electrical appliance and bulbs on their own don't consuem large amounts abut the cost clearly comes from somewhere. Take a large room with say 10 spotlights on 2 circuits. Why burn both of them if 1 person is in the room ? 

I tried out the gizmo that "plugs into" the meterbox and remotely shows me real time usage. As you say , boiling the kettle sent it into a frenzy . We live in a society where people are too lazy to learn and implement simple measures  .  I reckon the average person , unlike us accountants , couldn't work out the cost of running a 100w bulb for 3 hours .

Your point about "disconnect" (no pun intended I am sure) is good - compare that to filling your car up .

The car magazines are full of facts and figures that incldude the runnign cost per mile. Why not have the same for appliances instead of  coloured bands spanning the spectrum of lousy to wunderbar ?

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By justsotax
31st Oct 2013 16:58

Quite right...

but your car example just has one problem...if you work...and you live 20 miles away....generally you have very limited alternatives....you can turn off the lights, turn down the heating etc etc....but in the end you can only cut so far....

 

for years we have been told to insulate our houses....but what do you do beyond that....and if you switch (assuming your account is fully paid off) then again once you have done it once you have limited savings.

 

The red herring of the 'green tax' doesn't help....£50 on a bill...doesn't cover half the usual rise (which always seems to be just below 10%.

 

 

 

 

(100w bulb...do they exist anymore?!)

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By Knight Rider
31st Oct 2013 18:08

Red Herring?

Im not sure £50 is a red herring!

The Government (and the previous one) have been found out on energy stealth taxes.

When fuel prices rise everyone blames the oil companies despite c70% of the cost being taxation. We all know this and yet the Government gets away with it.

I agree with FS about transparency and more accurate appliance costings. I have no idea how much most of my appliances cost to run and yet I know my car costs about 13p a mile in fuel.

I also have a small cupboard full of 60w and 100w bulbs!

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
31st Oct 2013 22:03

Bulbs is a classic case of environmental hogwash that sits nicely with carbon taxes. In pursuit of the green agenda that has hijacked every debate we sit in dimly light rooms and strain our eyes .Let the market decide if they wish to purchase incandescent light bulbs .  A car that costs 13p a mile to run ? Do you push it everywhere ?

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Replying to Alex_T:
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By User deleted
01st Nov 2013 16:51

Agree ...

Flying Scotsman wrote:

Bulbs is a classic case of environmental hogwash that sits nicely with carbon taxes. In pursuit of the green agenda that has hijacked every debate we sit in dimly light rooms and strain our eyes .Let the market decide if they wish to purchase incandescent light bulbs .  A car that costs 13p a mile to run ? Do you push it everywhere ?

10 times the price for 50% of the light!

Wife cracked today though and turned the central heating on!

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By Knight Rider
31st Oct 2013 23:22

Fuel cost of A 50mpg Passat diesel is about 13ppm.Repairs and maintenance 5ppm.Other costs (depreciation,tax and insurance) about 12ppm. I wish I could break down my electricity bill in this way between appliances and time.
Speaking of environmental hogwash I have just read that the EU will announce guidelines on toilet flushing next week!

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By DMGbus
01st Nov 2013 09:06

Individual appliance running costs

There are available plug-in devices to measure electricity consumption of individual appliances.  Most people either don't wish to incur the cost of such devices or are unaware that they exist.

Others are aware that a rough and ready calculation of costs is possible: for example a 3kw electric fire will use approximately 3 units of electricity per hour - and multiply this by the unit rate this then gives an hourly cost (of the order of 37p on my current tariff).  

What might be my biggest individual electrical consumption item actually has its own in built meter from which I can compute an electricity cost per mile travelled of 2.85 pence.

Gas is more complicated - several steps to the cost calculation (eg using calorific value and volume conversion factors!).  An Excel spreadsheet comes in handy here.  In fact I maintain a spreadsheet to monitor average daily unit useage for both electricity and gas.  

 

 

 

 

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By ShirleyM
01st Nov 2013 09:34

Daily standing charge

As far as I can see, standing daily charges have been really racked up ... by 500%?

This is going to hit the poor hardest, as no matter how little gas they use they will still be paying a vastly increased daily standing charge , ie. pay almost £100 per year regardless of how much gas they use.

I know £100 isn't much to you and me, but it is a vast amount to someone on minimum wages who has a home & family to keep.

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Norman Younger
By Norman Younger
01st Nov 2013 10:59

Standing charge

As far as I can see it this is an anachronism . We live in a world of "pay as you go" so why on earth these charges remain is beyond me. It is regressive , as you point out , and is a bit like road tax.

Why can't the esteemed regulator abolish them ?

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