HS2 cometh north - nimbys beware !

So a couple of hundred homes will be bulldozed to benefit 100s of thousands of people . Not that one makes light of the personal anguish suffered by those in the path of HS2 but let's get a sense of proportion here. A very lot of jobs , bringing delight to many unemployed people , a massive boost for business that has to trickle down into society .....

And it's not as if the homes and businesses have 3 months notice so why oh why are people jumping up and down . Is it genuine worries or that good old British trait of righteous indignation ?

At least the EU haven't made it illegal to discriminate against NIMBYs !

 

Comments

Do you really think it will be built ?

DJP | | Permalink

My guess is that the proposals will be changed beyond recognition by the next government, and the whole thing cancelled by the government after that.

Besides, the cost of using it will be so high that it won't make a jot of difference to anyone.

 

memyself-eye's picture

benefit? delight? jobs?

memyself-eye | | Permalink

There already exists a rail route between 'that London' and the Norff. This monstrosity will save all of 20 minutes from the current Birmingham/London time and the new HS2 station isn't even in the middle of Brum - it's at Curzon street,  a guess what, 20 minute walk from New street (from where all the other trains depart) 

Surely the need is for more runway capacity at or near Heathrow and upgrading the A14.

HS2 will end up like the M6 toll which has just had it's most underused year since it was built.

Flying Scotsman's picture

Which project

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

Whatever scheme is devised by the powers that be there will be shouts of "waste of money - do this instead"

 

I was in the car and heard You & Yours discussing it on Radio 4 . They discussed the cost of tickets and it seems Spain has a very good 2 tier pice model . As for the locations I am not qualified to comment but they do seem to be the lesser of the evils in terms of destroying homes and businesses.  They also seem a reasonable compromise on destination such as mid way between Derby and Nottingham , which covers 2 cities . Yes you'll need to take some other form of transport to complete the journey but I guess that there will be very effiicent shuttles and such like at each end - after all the operator will have a captive audience.

 

I think M6 Toll is great because it is empty - I am happy to pay for the privilege at peak times . It's called a market......we pays our money and takes our choice

memyself-eye's picture

we pays our money..

memyself-eye | | Permalink

and they take their choice. Who do you think will end up paying for HS2?

The M6 toll was privately financed - I suggest if you asked their investors if it was a good deal they might have a contrary view, especially as the M6 proper is in the process of being widened.

There is a need for infrastructure spending in the UK - this is not it.

I assume there's not much demand for it but

Lilac1 | | Permalink

I wish there was an underground train network in the midlands. A journey that takes me an hour by car would take me 2 hours by train not including the time it takes me to get to the station and the journey at the other end. Then even the HS2 station in Nottingham would be viable, although they say the tram line will be extended to the new train station. I just think public transport outside of London is rubbish.

Flying Scotsman's picture

Public transport

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

In Glasgow there is a wee underground that goes round in a circle but avoids the outer suburbs

and I believe Newcastle has a better one.

In Manchester we are extending Metrolink , which is overground "tram" and is pretty good.

It seems to me that if Metrolink can pay its way then why don't other cities throw money into

trams and underground , especuially if planners make it harder to get into and park in city centres peopel will be forced onto public transport but only if it is speedy and reliable , unlike buses which have

too many stops for anybody going on a longer journey

Doncaster/wakefield to london

Fidodido | | Permalink

Not looked at new plans but takes 1hour 40 to get to london form donny and slightly more from Wakefield... to me that is perfect i can see how new train will shave much time off that. 

I agree that the money would be better spent else where and could still produce jobs etc.  why not plow it in to manufacturing breaks and get the country making things again!

Hospitals/Fire/Police/schools etc could all do with a bit more cash i am sure.

 

The costs of new train outways the benefits in my opinion.

Flying Scotsman's picture

Manufacturing

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

The trouble is that you have to manufacture something people want at the price you need to charge to remain profitable.

Perhaps we could manufacture railways and trains....

memyself-eye's picture

We do...

memyself-eye | | Permalink

They are called Jaguars and Range Rovers - ohh - and aero engines and F1 cars and satellites, and lots of other stuff.

There was a telly programme on last night comparing runway capacity here and abroad. Schipoll Holland has 6 runways, Istanbul is building 6. Heathrow has, errr....2.

You can see the Range Rover factory in Solihull from Birmingham airport, yet the head of TATA (the owners of JLR) cannot fly from India to Brum (and if Heathrow remains at 100% capacity won't be able to fly there soon either!)

HS2 looks daft when put against those issues.

Flying Scotsman's picture

Capacity

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

Time to think out of the box here. Heathrow has become the sacred cow of our infrastructure .

Of course many jobs depend on it but let's look at the greater good for the country.

This is a recurring theme of NIMBYism and sacred cows - it is often totally and utterly selfish .

Of course nobody likes upheaval but that's life

High Speed Motorways

Knight Rider | | Permalink

Given the UKs once again expanding motor industry (particularly in high end vehicles) perhaps this money would be better spent improving Britains motorway network. If high speed rail is such a good idea why not high speed motorways? At least some of the cars used would be built here.

Flying Scotsman's picture

High speed motorway

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

Excellent idea - it would certain people (ahem) to open up the throttle and pay for the privilege

Sign me up !

High Speed

Knight Rider | | Permalink

If HS2 is high speed this can only be because it doesn't stop. If it doesn't stop it can hardly bring any benefit to anywhere between London and Birmingham. If speed is important why not take a plane?

Im sure plenty of us would like to see a better road network which benefits all rather than a rail network that hardly anyone will use.

Flying Scotsman's picture

Speed and planes

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

Take a plane ? Are you mad or what ....

The thought of being herded like sheep and treated like a villain is enough to send tremors down my spine

It is faster and much more pleasant to drive than fly for a journey of 200 miles or less .

Planes

Knight Rider | | Permalink

FS - Actually share your thoughts on planes

 

Am puzzled why the same security does not apply on trains. Perhaps it will eventually which will encourage more people into private cars.

With high speed motorways your 200 miles could easily double.

 

Flying Scotsman's picture

Planes and motorways

Flying Scotsman | | Permalink

Just wait until some clown starts blowing up trains in the name of their beloved clause...

I am salivating at the thought of being able to open my throttle all the way , legally on a British Road

I was a passenger in Germany 2 yeas ago and the speedo was at 130+ mph and all the old ladies in their Micras (sorry Mum) keep well to their lane at the side . All drivers are well disciplined and move out of your way - what do you expect from Deutschlanders  

 

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