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HMRC helpline staff can 'rarely give a proper reply'

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29th Jun 2005
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HM Revenue and Customs helpline staff are "simply not properly trained to do the job" in most cases, and can rarely give a proper reply to a question, according to two major tax bodies.

In a joint response to HMRC's consultation paper, Working towards a new relationship: a consultation on priorities for reducing the administrative burden of the tax system on small business, the Chartered Institute of Taxation and the Association of Taxation Technicians severely criticised the way HMRC communicates with businesses and their advisers.

They suggested that priority is given to three "core areas" of flexible payment arrangements, communication with HRMC, and inspections and enquiries.

TaxZone has invited HMRC to comment on the submission.

Review of communications is 'absolutely imperative'
The CIOT and ATT called for a major investment into the training of staff dealing with queries from small businesses and their agents. A thorough review of how HMRC communicates with businesses is "absolutely imperative".

There is "very real divide" between internet-based communication and other forms of communication, they said. While acknowledging recent improvements to the HRMC website, they cautioned against seeing the internet as the way of solving the communications problem.

Many small businesses are infrequent visitors to the site, they argued. Information on a website can only be generic "by its very nature", and a personal service is needed.

There is an "almost universal belief" among CIOT and ATT members that it is "much harder than it once was to speak to anybody within HRMC who actually can deal with their client's particular issue", and there are still "major problems" in getting through to helplines.

But the tax bodies' greatest concern is "the fact that when it is possible to speak to somebody it is rare that a proper reply to a question can be obtained".

"Helpline staff are almost invariably courteous and clearly want to be helpful, but the fact is that in most cases they are simply not properly trained to do the job," they said.

"If the particular question which is being asked appears on their screens they can give the appropriate answer, but otherwise they are unable to be helpful. The level of frustration that this causes should not be underestimated.

"We are, after all, talking about taxpayers who are trying to comply with their obligations. Taxpayers who are attempting not to comply with their obligations are not going to be using helplines."

They added that the current system is "widely seen as inadequate", both for the adviser and especially the small business that is trying to manage without an adviser.

"There is a major training issue here. As professional advisers, we would be very wary indeed of allowing staff with one or two years' experience to deal with client queries, yet HMRC seems to be happy to allow staff with no tax experience and only a few days' training to man helplines."

Single account for all payments
"Considerable resources" should be put into developing a system under which a small business can have a single account with HMRC, the tax bodies said.

Payment dates can appear "completely arbitrary", especially for people running a business for the first time.

The long delay before a self-employed person pays tax on profits often "works against the business", and lack of co-ordination between payments for income tax, PAYE, NIC and VAT often mean that a taxpayer has "little idea" of what sums are due when.

Money could be paid into the single account at any time, and tax payments could be made out of it when the tax falls due.

Inspections and enquiries
There should be a wholesale review of the procedures under which enquiries into small businesses are conducted, the CIOT and ATT said, arguing that the current system is inefficient and "often counterproductive".

Members have reported "time and time again" that enquiries have lasted an "inordinate" amount of time but produced very little or nothing in the way of additional tax.

"All too often the client has to pay more in professional fees than he does in tax," they added.

"An adviser dealing with a client facing a full enquiry has to warn that client that the whole process could easily take a year or so to resolve. This statement is usually met with incomprehension, but often it turns out to be an underestimate.

"We have no doubt that the Inspector ' is as keen as the taxpayer to resolve matters, yet somehow the process takes on a life of its own, and once started is very difficult to keep under control."

The tax bodies suggested that tax enquiries could "and perhaps should" be more like due diligence exercises.

"An Inspector opening an enquiry ought to be obliged to undertake a proper tax risk assessment, based on the taxpayer's records, and would have to report to the taxpayer within a specified period on whether or not there were proper grounds for continuing the enquiry."

Helping compliant taxpayers
The tax bodies warned that it can take one bad experience for an otherwise compliant taxpayer to decide that it is not worth working within the system.

"Based on our collective experience of advising clients over many years, we do believe that most small businesses want to comply with their tax obligations. There will always be a minority who set out to abuse the system, but these are only a minority.

"The system should be designed to ensure that those who do want to comply are given every opportunity and encouragement to comply."

Andrew Goodall
Editor, TaxZone

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    Replies (7)

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    avatar
    By sbmarshall
    05th Aug 2005 08:06

    not a choice
    C'mon Nick, like most others, I was already married before I became professionally involved with HMRC. I'm not about to divorce my partner & try to find a tax expert sufficiently humanoid to marry just to improve my service to clients!

    Seriously though, it's true that if you once find a qualified, experienced and helpful official on the phone you should try to form a personal relationship quickly. Then, even if they move to another post, they will often tell you who to speak to for a problem you're trying to solve, if it's not their area.

    It shouldn't have to be like this though.

    Golden rule is, once you have their personal mobile number, you might stand a chance....

    Thanks (0)
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    By markfaherty
    11th Jul 2005 09:25

    Ex-colleagues help
    I didn't mention that I am ex-Revenue (some 15 years on now), I still socialise with my contacts (two are in the same cycling club) and that one of them is my wife! But without this I agree that except for the most simple query (assuming the phone lines aren't engaged) phoning R&C call centres is useless.

    Thanks (0)
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    By LJCWBW
    04th Jul 2005 22:14

    You can get to speak to someone can you?!!
    I now always use the "practitioners" phone number and as such have found that my queries are dealt with courteously and effectively. You can never ever get through using the usual "call centre" number - the line is permanently engaged. The "practitioners" line is also sometimes engaged for long periods of time.

    I tested the numbers a couple of weeks ago - a client of mine owed about £500. She is elderly and the Revenue were chasing for payment(she had sold a business at a massive loss and the £500 was an amount left over to pay). She now only lives on the state pension and a small gratuity. She had been receiving incorrect demands for payment for weeks and became very distressed so I promised to speak to the Revenue and ask for payment by instalments etc and at least agreement as to the correct amount to pay. I started ringing the number for Bristol at 9.15am and tried again every 20 minutes until late afternoon when I gave up and called the practitioners line. If I could not get through how is any member of the taxpaying public supposed to?

    When I eventually got through I moaned about the constant engaged tone and was advised that just that week the Bristol office had trained over 80 additional persons to answer the phones - fine but if there are not enough lines in the 1st place???!!

    By the way - the end of the story is that I was told to put my request in writing (I had already done so but did again) I headed the letter URGENT and said that my client was distressed about the lack of understanding and action. I received a response with a revised demand exactly six weeks later.

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    By AnonymousUser
    30th Jun 2005 08:06

    training
    I have dealt with investigations for nearly forty years and the training of Inspectors has certainly changed in the last five maybe longer.
    Most Inspectors now are geared to obtaining the "most" instead of the "right" amount of tax and then once everything is agreed you get the "bank manager" approach - of course I'll have to agree it with my manager. Twice lately I have agreed a figure with the inspector only to be told the manager wants a further meeting, obviously to explore areas where he has felt the Inspector has given in. In doing so he has ignored that most "agreements" are normally a "package".
    I have always advocated that it should be part of Accountants and Inspectors training that they spend at least six months as a swop exercise.

    Thanks (0)
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    By AnonymousUser
    30th Jun 2005 10:37

    Weeks not years of training
    We are talking about call centre staff here not Inspectors.

    The people who answer the phones in the call centres have only weeks of training in tax, not years, and rely almost entirely on what the screen in front of them says. At nearly every Working Together meeting I have attended someone brings up the topic of the service provided by the call centre, which has not been able to give an adequate answer to a question, or even worse has provided a client with a nonsense answer.

    I am pleased to see the CIOT taking a strong line on this. Its about time they shouted about the problems the HMRC working methods cause for thier members.
    Rebecca Cave

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    By markfaherty
    30th Jun 2005 12:00

    Reply to Neil
    Before the advent of the call centre you would either call the office dealing with the client's affairs cold and then get transferred to the correct department, or have a name in a particular department who you knew would deal with the matter efficiently. The wealth of knowledge in a local district is immense and there would usually be someone who could deal with the query. In my local office I still communicate with 5 officers who between them have 140 years of experience in various areas of the Inland Revenue be it PAYE, investigations, receiveables, schedule D, CT, end of year, tax technical, shares valuation or joint shadow economy, to name a few.

    It is a shame that this knowledge base is not used to provide the service the taxpayer and our profession expect and deserve.

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    By NeilW
    30th Jun 2005 09:33

    Complexity
    It's hardly surprising given the complexity of the tax system. I'm not even sure it is possible in many cases to give a 'right' answer, just a 'not wrong' answer!

    NeilW

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