Skype Still Down for Millions

....I would say that business critical functions, by definition, should not depend upon free services. If your business can't afford to be without a free service in the event of it failing, then you can probably afford to pay for one.

Facebook yes, but is skype really cloud ?

If you download software on to your computer and that is where most of the CPU cycles tick, even if it is highly dependent on the existence of the net, is it cloud ?

Is outlook cloud ?

Is all tax software that transmits to the HMRC cloud ?

David Forbes

www.forbes.co.uk

If most of the use of a program is over the internet I would say it is cloud.

If you submit something over the internet for a few seconds after using the program for an hour then it's not cloud.

In my opinion anyway.

@petersaxton - cloud depends on where the applcation runs and where the data resides

On your local machine is not cloud - it has nothing to do with proportionality

Why oh why does everyone try to put their own interpretation on this ??

So if you use HMRC online services then that is cloud?

That seems to be unavailable and inefficient quite a lot.

?

Here is a possible explanation of the Skype outage

http://www.disruptivetelephony.com/2010/12/understanding-todays-skype-outage-explaining-supernodes.html

Mind you the Skype business model is quite neat in the way that you could become a supernode (depending upon circumstances).  So your machine does the 'donkey work', potentially eats up your bandwidth and yet Skype gets all the revenues - ideal scenario really, others do the work and you get the money .. brilliant

We have used microsoft netmeeting in the past, but I don't know if it is still available

....died a while ago. Commercial VoIP is either Cisco, Microsoft Lync Server (formerly Communications Server) or consumer MSN chat, GoogleTalk or iChat on Mac.

I constantly switch systems, in use concurrently, voip (two of outgooing, numerous incoming), skype video/voice/chat, webex on trial for video conferencing and desktop sharing (like it so far), and if I didn't have a backup application, I'd have one in place in minutes - what's key are of course data and telephone numbers in the above - whatever I can't buy instantly.

Skype is down? I hadn't noticed, which says it all really (given I am now an active skype user).

We used to talk about off-site backups, now we need to talk about ON-site backups, ones that we can make use of if the cloud fails, for any reason at all whether it be their technical matters or our broadband access.

that's my thruppence worth.

Anthony

will look at others

...when you have no electricity. I'm missing the materiality of this entire discussion. Road closures, power cuts, tube delays, bad weather - we live in an imperfect world.

If it's mission critical to your business, try to mitigate the risks by doing your research on vendors and what if scenarios before using any service, but from time to time stuff breaks.

@garyturner - agreed thread going nowhere

Feels as though @chanpangchi is trying to drive traffic to his site !

To avoid the accusation why not just stop putting the links in the bottom of all your postings.

I grant there is a question around matters of degree, meaning for how long the system is broken and when fixed whether all data is still present.

and I (if I may crow for a moment) survived two burglaries that removed all my equipment (2nd being six weeks after the first), by having live, working, offsite backups brought immediately in to use - and this was in about 1993. Actually they were copies rather than backups.. if that makes a difference to anyone - practically "mirrors" in modern terminology.

Seems to me we should be able to do the same the other way around from the cloud, so a local mirror perhaps.

Whether the cloud is willing to facilitate/allow this might be different of course - which is where I think an issues resides.

Anthony

and if some one wants to drive traffic, try google adwords.. all in the cloud :-)

Sounds like your internal controls (specifically physical control over assets) need reviewing. 

This all smacks of @chanpangchi just making a noise. We don't need Cloud getting a bad name over this kind of miss-information. Skype's a great service that I use every day, but hardly mission critical with loads of alternatives (like a land line) available as backup.

Looking forward to more productive threads of substance in 2011.

David Terrar

Here are a few alternatives definitions of cloud software

1. software provides all the functions of a sophisticated traditional application, but through a Web browser, not a locally-installed application.

2. software that depends on the interent

3. software that uses the internet

4. software that uses the word "cloud" in sales material

The first and strongest comes from your first referenced article.  I like that web is has a capital 'W' ! . Despite the article going on to quote skype as an example of definition 1, I believe this incorrect as it is not browser based and does require to install software locally (skype.exe c. 13Mb). It would be clould by definitions 2 - 4.

and little sound !

Sometimes it's helpful to define these things by the benefits they deliver to a business rather than the intricacies of the underlying technology.  For example:

• access from anywhere (allows remote & distributed working, assuming Internet access)
• access from any device (flexibility and resilience)
• zero deployment effort & cost (implies no client install)
• lower IT admin costs: vendor takes care of housekeeping, backups, upgrades
• simple disaster recovery: vendor takes care of redundant infrastructure
• scalable (so cost is proportional to usage, and the system can accommodate organic & acquisition growth)

Not an exhaustive list, but it gives an alternative view of what we call Cloud - and surely Cloud is attractive in a given situation because of its benefits not because of its technology.  Defining by benefits also withstands a degree of technological evolution (for instance browers may be superseded by new operating systems, so I wouldn't tie the definition to being browser-based).

Interesting logic

• I am a means of transport
• I have room for a passenger
• I have 4 points of propulsion in touch with the road
• My power output can ne measures in horsepower
• I need fuel to keep me going
• I produce emissions
• I can be steered

I am actually a horse but but does that mean I can also be classed as a car?

Andrew Chan,
Good to hear your motto.  Still unsure about how helpful discussing skype's outage is in the context of the business systems we usually discuss here,

daveforbes and guyletts,
A few years back I would have argued pure SaaS/Cloud must be browser based.  Now, though, I've seen too many good Cloud solutions implemented with a java client on Windows or a mobile app on an iPad/iPhone which are still good solutions, like WebEx or GoToMeeting or Newbase.  The user interface doesn't have to be browser only, but the deployment should be straightforward, quick and available from anywhere.  We need to get used to this style of Cloud app UI as the iPad, android, WebOS and the Playbook start to become regular access devices for Cloud services over the next few years.

JC,
Chuckle... makes me thing of correlation vs causation discussions I've been listening to on Twitter this week.

David Terrar

Sorry if I didn't explain clearly enough.  My point is that a lot of time can be wasted on pedantic and often sterile debates about technological definitions.  If we focus on a set of desirable business benefits as the test of what we're looking for, then it matters less what is the exact nature of the underlying technology.  Defining Cloud in overly precise technical criteria strikes me as having rather limited value since surely what we seek is the favourable outcomes over the means by which they are delivered. 

If we must define it, and there probably is a benefit in summing up those qualities with a useful handle, then I'm suggesting that a black box test can sometimes complement a white box test.  The choice of benefits is important though, otherwise I'm sure the sharp minds that this thread attracts could quickly categorise a horse or a car as Cloud too.

If you relax your definition from "nothing to install" to "easy to install" and remove the need for running in a browser, I can wholeheartedly agree with the prediction that within a few years everything will be cloud !

This forum should have some sticky posts which cover off the recurring themes of defining the cloud, it's benefits and any other helpful themes. These sticky posts should be moderated and authoritative and permanently visible at the top of the message list.

Otherwise they will constantly leak into every post, negating the value of the forum and it's ability to inform and help newcomers.

Good point, Gary. 

Agree with Gary too.... and add that in to the discussion group explanation up front.

David Terrar

Dave, our current collective understanding the browser is at an interesting stage. It started as an app for viewing HTML, now hosts apps inside it and soon Google's new Chrome OS (not the browser Chrome) is in effect a self contained operating system inside a permanently web connected browser construct, there is no concept of offline apps.

Our notions of what is an OS, what is an app and what is a browser are rooted in the now ageing pre browser (pre-web for that matter) Windows desktop paradigm. Whether something runs inside a browser or not in several years appears to be fast becoming a moot point.

I am familiar with chrome os

From my experience Google chrome os is essentially google chrome browser running (full screen) and with enough of the (linux) operating system included so that it does not require any further o/s such as windows or unix. If my app runs entirely within the browser it should not matter whether that browser is safari, explorer or chrome running on top of OS/X, windows, linux or chrome o/s.

If people want have a go with chrome os - you can download it from http://getchrome.eu/download.php and save it onto a CD and boot your PC from it (without windows !).

It is not an entirely new idea - http://users.rcn.com/crfriend/museum/machines/IBM-X130.html !

If you don't like the term browser you could always call it a "cloud terminal" instead. 

Maybe the definition of a piece of software being "clould" is if and only if you can use it from a computer running only chrome os.

1) Once a connection is established, if I am chatting to you using skype, a program that I have downloaded and installed on my PC is converting audio into ip packets and transmitting them over a network (local or internet) to a similar program downloaded and running on your PC. It is a point to point connection between two programs downloaded and running on 2 PCs.

2)  On top of this (and the bit that went wrong) is not everyone has a fixed ip address and they are not particularly easy to remember so skype includes a directory service (a bit like the phone book or yellow pages but constantly updating due to dynamic socket addresses). This information is distributed redundantly over the participating computers (i.e. yours and mine unless firewalls prevent it) as a peer to peer network. Each participating computer has an (overlapping) bit of this big database. There are no servers involved just people with skype installed on their computers.

Yes a bug, a bug in the skype software downloaded onto peoples PCs that caused 2) above to stop working.