Why would it be a bigger mess ?
Surely we'd be in exactly the same overall situation with the Lib Dems holding the balance of power and the smaller parties on the side lines ?
Change happens
Messing with the machinery of state has always been a tough call in the UK because so much has been around for so long that few governments have the stomach or time to do anything but tinker with it and the public would rather them deal with unemployment and taxes than administration. Look at Labour & The House of Lords.
Consequently it's needed something like the current situation to make you & me sit up and realise it's just plain silly and out of date and needs changing, so any government, whether in their own interest or not, is more likely to do something.
It is in the nature of adversarial politics that there will be two main opposing forces, in the 19th & early 20th century it was tory & liberal, then with the increasing numbers of hacked off working class and left leaning toffs labour took over. This created large tory & labour heartlands where the candidates needed only a few votes to get them elected leaving the Liberals to have a good share of the vote across the country but needing large numbers of votes in each constituancy to gain any ground. So we have a major party with 23% of the vote ending up with only 9% of the seats and no matter how reactionary you are, it's difficult to justify that as fair.
Given how many countries now run some sort of PR we are spoilt for choice over which to model our own on but it will be a battle because vested interests do what's best for them rather than the country, plus a large number still believe that, like football & cricket, it's our game and we don't need Johhny foreigner telling us how to do it.
For me, it's the adverasrial element that has always been the problem. It might have been great when it meant that opposing forces would shout at each other across the floor out of sword's length, rather than hack each other to pieces, but we've moved on a bit from that (just) and if you were inventing a way to run any community or organisation today would this method be fit for purpose?
So if we get rid of or temper that how about moving the monach into more affordable social housing (and clothing) so that she can spend her remaining years in peace & quiet and let Charles and his boys look for proper jobs?
Corruption
Lets get some FACTS straight.
71% voted AGAINST Labour
77% voted AGAINST the Liberals
Only 63.9% voted against the Tories.
Put it another way 59.1% voted FOR a Consevative/Liberal government.
Only 52% voted for a Labour/Liberal coalition.
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT WITH THESE FIGURES - THEY ARE THE FACTS.
ANYTHING WHICH EXCLUDES THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS, THEREFORE, ILLEGITIMATE - [removed by mod]
Mandleson is the new Mugabe
The figures I quoted are percentages of VOTES.
We now face a power grab orchestrated by the unelected Mandleson.
Fraud
Dont forget there are over 100 police investigations into voting fraud - these affect 57 seats, 56 of which were won by narrow Labour majorities. Oddly every single case of voter fraud involved illegal votes being cast for the Labour candidate.
This could yet turn the entire result around.
Did you vote for or against?
The view that we should judge the results of the election by treating every voter as having voted against someone rather than for someone is bizarre, although perfectly understandable in someone who would not see a silver lining till it hit them in the face.
It makes far more sense to recognise that most voted for the conservatives and so, in the current limbo, they should get first crack at forming a government or is that logic too far right of zero?
As with lord andrew lloyd webber I have a personal feeling of unease with peter mandelson but he's a product of UK politics and his methods & actions just as questionable as those of people who sit behind other parties, lord ashdown for example? Too easy to sling your bile at individuals, surely better to stick with the system they work under? Or is it that now GB's off you need someone else to pin the woes of the world on?
Democracy? Not in Britain it seems
The fact is that at this election more than any other people voted AGAINST what they didnt want, rather than FOR what they did want.
However the figures are presented, the Tories won a majority. It is only by others forming alliances that the Tories can be defeated.
We now have a system that Robert Mugabee would feel right at home in.
voting against??
OK, red dragon....how do you know? is this a sign that you are a Daily Mail reader and believe what you read?
You could always vote Plaid Cymru.
Proportional representation can and does work in a great many countries, there is no real reason why it could not work for the UK.We have 3 main parties who have moved a long way from their original bases ( I come from a family with historic political connections) and in view of the current monetary difficulties facing the world there should be a government which can truly represent fairness and put in place a tax regime which does not require an annual gouging. Whichever group comes into power they would do well to listen to the Tax Justice Network and display a principled commitment to all of the population of the UK.
I wonder where people keep getting the "red" from ?
OK, red dragon....how do you know? is this a sign that you are a Daily Mail reader and believe what you read?
You could always vote Plaid Cymru.
Posted by sue scherzo on Tue, 11/05/2010 - 12:17
Actually I do not read the Mail - it seems you like to "pigeon hole" people. I can assure you I am too old, too experienced, and too intelligent to allow any newspaper to sway my views. For what possible reason would I vote Plaid Cymru?
Proportional representation will never work as it leads only to constant back room deals and unstable government.
I note you have "historic political connections", my great, great, great, great, great, great Grandfather was an MP from 1818-1835, and, from 1837-1849 (when he died).
Why call PR a mess??
Next year I will celebrate 40 years as a guest (and tax payer) in the UK without regret!!
Adversorial politics is deeply engrained in Westminster Village. Rotten system? Expenses scandal? Vulcanic Cloud? BA Cabin Staff Strike .. bah, humbug!!
Lets sort out the deficit and remind ourselves that the Greek European rescue package announced yesterday is a good move.
My prediction?
None of us like uncertainty - it simply is not good for business and equity bonds. If the Tories and the LibDems cannot reach agreement bu the end of today, a government of national unity is the only viable alternative.
Pest Control
None of us like uncertainty - it simply is not good for business and equity bonds. If the Tories and the LibDems cannot reach agreement bu the end of today, a government of national unity is the only viable alternative.
Posted by businessinfo777 on Tue, 11/05/2010 - 14:31
That will not happen.
We have a group in politics, most of them not even elected, Mandleson, Campbell, and "Lord" Adonis, who are greedy manipulative vermin simply there to line their own pockets and to grab whatever power they can for their own corrupt ends.
Politics needs cleaning up - and in my opinion it's a job for a rat catcher.
Pure PR
What you have proven David is that under a "pure" PR system - we would be in an even bigger mess than we are now - with deals being done in smoke filled rooms.