Problems with Sage 2010

Has anyone had 'split' errors in Sage since upgarding? I have got corruption errors that mean some postings don't appear on my customers account, or they appear in duplicate. It is a nighmare! I can't trust the account activity.

I have spoken to SAGE today and they said no one else is having this problem, however I have spoken to one of my customers that use Sage and they have had the same issue.

Sage have said that it will take 3 working days to fix but they would recommend that we don't use Sage during that time.....are they mad? They have also suggested that if I paid an EXTRA £400 I could jump to the front of the que (apparently that department is very busy???.....there is a clue there for them surely!!) they will fix it overnight. I pay for my sage cover EVERY year and hardly use it yet they are now asking for more money. If they can fix it overnight then why don't they?

Comments

Who can I trust

BobColc | | Permalink

Hi,

I need to switch from the now abandoned Microsoft Office Accounting.

I had thought Sage was the least bad alternative. Stories like this make me wonder!

 

Sage Data Corruption

arandall | | Permalink

I assume that you will be sending your data to Sage to have the data cleansed.  We have this as part of our Sage Cover and it still took three days, during which time we could not update Sage as, obviously, when the "clean" data is restored, it will not include any changes you have made in the meantime.  You can still view Sage during this time, however.

Issued too Quickly

bobhurn | | Permalink

The age old software problem of issuing a product as fast as possible and letting the end user find the problem.  We always wait several months after a Sage upgrade before installing it.  Though it begs the question why issue the 2010 product in the late summer of 2009?  Would it not have been better to use the months until 2010 to test it?  I have complained before to Sage about the lack of Beta testing and they claim that they do this and apprently I am on the recepient list, though never receive a Beta copy.

Every Line 50 upgarde in recent years as been problimatic causing days of downtime. We are due in install 2010 this afternoon and if we have similar problems to those experienced in recent years in will be goodbye to Sage.

Finally when will they actually write a network product rather than adapting the standalone product to run on a network? 

Sage is a great product when it is working, but the current attitude of the company appears to be to treat end users with contempt.

Where to next ?

BobColc | | Permalink

Hi bobhurn,

What is your favoured product to use in place of Sage ?

Thanks,

when will they actually write a network product

Anonymous | | Permalink

Because they can't - witness their disaster with a SaaS product

They are a marketing organisation and not a software house

SAGE Cover Extra

vdeepan3 | | Permalink

I had the same problem once re Data Corruption. They advised me to go for SAGE Extra cover and they corrected it overnight. It's a rip off , but can't help.

Also  I pay for Excel support and hardly use SAGE or Excel support. But once i needed an Excel report I had to speak to three different advisors and they all gave different answers, 

1. It has to be done by programming/VBA - need 5 days to do. But came back saying it's difficult to do

2. SAGE does not support these kind of reports

3. You can't do such a report in Excel.

 

At the end I managed to do the report on my own, googling for some help.

 

This is what we get for the money we pay.

Cheers

Sage Cover Extra

tecorhonda | | Permalink

I have got Sage Cover Extra - I renew it every year.

I just think its cheeky that the one time I need it they want to charge me an extra £400 just because they are 'busy'!

It's pants

andrew wallace | | Permalink

We waited until recently to upgrade, following the warnings on its release of problems, needless to say we had a awful time. The corruption reared it's head after about 5 days with lines of data missing and one sided entries. We have always paid for the 'extra cover' and I'm not quite sure how they define 'extra' as I would call it 'less cover'. In the past I have never had any problems dealing with SAGE and they were very customer focused, but I agree with other peoples view, they don't really seem to care now so long as the problem goes away. 

Sage repalcement

bobhurn | | Permalink

Will probably be Iris due to the facts that it is a network product and we use Iris for statutory accounts, tax and company secretary.

Sage 2010 Returned

ronnieh | | Permalink

Currently running version 11, decided it was time we got more up to date so orderd sage 2010. Received it and trialed it on a standalone machine and across the network, absolute waste of time, took up to 30 seconds  to enter a new sales order. Returned it to sage within the 30 days and got our money back. Still using version 11 quite happily, not perfect but is there an alternative package for the same money?

lindaluvdup's picture

Sage 2010 painfully slow

lindaluvdup | | Permalink

Unfortunately, we've upgraded our 2003 version of Sage Line 50 to Sage 2010 - as Sage told us they would not support the 2003 version and the 2010 version was incredibly fast. We were told the data transfer from Weighsoft to Sage at month end literally took seconds and it would be worth upgrading to 2010 just for this reason alone.

Of course, the reality is the opposite and 2010 means I have to apologise to customers waiting on the phone just whilst waiting for their accounts to open - and during the data transfer from Weighsoft to Sage we go to lunch, as we do during the bank rec.

I've complained loudly to Sage, who admit their sales staff lie to get sales, and every suggestion they've made has had no effect. I'd change back to the 2003 version tomorrow but that's not practical so I'm planning, once time and funds allow, to investigate other packages. In the meantime, I've resolved never to upgrade Sage again.

My advice to anyone considering getting Sage, or upgrading their current Sage, is DON'T!

-- Lin

philipdc's picture

Change to TurboCASH

philipdc | | Permalink

-- "No one possesses the less because everyone possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me receives it without lessening me, as he who lights his candle at mine receives light without darkening me" - Thomas Jefferson

 

Why not try a free download of TurboCASH.

I an not saying that there are no bugs in Open Source Software, but the means of fixing them is completely open. Noone denies that a bug exists. It is declared openly in a list for everyone to see. Register the problems and the community fixes it. If you are the only person with the problem, then you pay to fix it and everyone else gets the fix free.

It is almost beyond comprehension that a free software package is actually better than one that you pay $ 500 for a limited licence. The only way to satisfy yourself of this fact is to try it - www.turbocash.net 

Slow Sage

appacc | | Permalink

I have to say that 2010 Client Manager version is just fine.

I have the program on my C: drive and the data (I have a 50 company licence) on the server.

It sounds like individual setup is the problem rather than the software.

With the bank rec. I agree it is very slow.

The trick here is not to enter a bank statement number. Then it whizzes through.

 

Trevor Green

 

kevin503's picture

Sage 50 reseller views

kevin503 | | Permalink

As a reseller, and someone who deals with Sage on a very regular basis, here are a few observations:

Sage technical support is excellent. The operators are very well trained, knowledgeable and generally very helpful. Sage direct sales (outbound teams) are out to sell as much as possible to meet their sales targets. Their sales scripts may sometimes be <less> than ethical or give the full picture. They have little experience of the software, accounting or general IT issues. Their job is to hit sales targets, not provide business solutions. It should come as little surprise they will never tell prospects that their hardware or network is not suitable for their product.

Newer versions of Sage, basically anything after v12, need very fast networks and heavy duty server / workstations. That means 1Gb network cards and switches. Server hardware - mirrored RAID, and very fast drives, dual processors (not just dual core!). A basic Dell machine with a server badge is not sufficient! Workstations - as much memory as you can fit in the machine, and a very fast processor. Low spec. networks or equipment can lead to data corruption.

Some basic workstations, when running Vista plus an Internet Security suit (as opposed to basic anti-virus) will run like a dog. Windows 7 performs <slightly> better. Some low spec. PCs are near impossible to upgrade to anything usable. £150 extra for a decent workstation over a budget one will make a big difference. Ironically, running XP rather than Vista or Windows 7 will see a big improvement on speed.

With very large datasets (say >5000 inv, >500 cust, >100,000 audit trail transactions etc), you hit a physical limit to how fast it will run on a network. The larger the dataset, or more number of concurrent users, the slower it will run.  At this point faster or more powerful hardware makes little difference. If you still need / want to run Sage 50, a thin client network using something like Citrix, X2 or Microsoft Terminal server is the only option available to get acceptable performance.

It is worth remembering that Sage cover is an only an option, it is not compulsory. Any competent Sage reseller can offer technical support for system to the same level as Sage. Many will do so on an ad-hoc basis. Most will answer the phone immediately, not after 20 mines. Sage Cover extra represents very poor value for money. Very few organisations need to upgrade every single year, which is the main thing you are paying for.

Also, Sage Cover extra subscribers get new software as soon as it has released, i.e. before patching and bug fixing. They are paying for the privilege of beta testing Sage software on a live system. It is these early releases which cause most of the problems when converting data from a previous version.

Prevention of data corruption is better than cure. Daily backups are essential, as are very regular data checks. If problems do occur, and you or your reseller can't fix them, either go back to a backup or pay for ad-hoc Sage data fix.

My advice? Get decent hardware. Drop Sage Cover Extra. Develop an ongoing, trusting relationship with a Sage reseller who knows your business and can support your hardware and software. There is very little margin in upgrades, so decent resellers are more interesting in the ongoing support of stable and happy sites than making a few quid on selling untested software.

lindaluvdup's picture

Sage 2010 speed issues

lindaluvdup | | Permalink

Kevin503 Thanks for your views - I do run XP and Sage have crawled all over our system and said it's all up to spec apart from the network speed. Before spending money on the network, Sage suggested I work on the server for a while - it didn't make a noticeable difference.

We do have quite a lot of data but, again, Sage said it wouldn't cause the problems we're experiencing and say they can't help us.

From what you've said I wish I'd found a decent Sage reseller rather than dealing with Sage directly, which I've always done.

-- Lin

Christop51's picture

Another Sage Reseller View

Christop51 | | Permalink

We have been both an accounting practice and Sage business partners operating in the East Midlands for over 15 years. Over the past ten years we have seen Sage grow tremendously.
Sage is now a global business, as such they have a 'large corporate' approach and attitude which often doesn't harmonise well with their SME roots.
Sage technical support is excellent. On the other hand, all too often we see our clients approached by Sage Direct Sales teams (who need to reach targets) hardselling SageCover products and upgrades.
Where it is often the case that customers/clients should be better advised to spend their hard earned money and time on replacing older kit and more regular 'data checks'and backups.
Most Sage business partners can offer equal and often better support services and upgrade advice to clients/customers whose businesses they understand at a fraction of the cost of SageCover.

KEVIN503 has hit the nail on head!    
 

philipdc's picture

You guys are locking up on technicalities

philipdc | | Permalink

-- "No one possesses the less because everyone possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me receives it without lessening me, as he who lights his candle at mine receives light without darkening me" - Thomas Jefferson

Just read through these posts and you will see a common thread -
"It is us- and- them". While you continue using prorprietary software - either as a dealer or a user, you will always be the vendor's vassal. In an open source community, the code is open - open for criticism - open for fixing. You are free to copy distribute, resell, develop or simply use the software. No fees, no payments, no sales teams calling you to meet their sales targets.

Resellers get confused as to who is paying whom. You have clients. Provide them with the best software possible. Get it to them as cheaply as possible and charge them for your knowlege and service. By focusing on selling them licence fees you are in fact no better than those call centre operators trying to meet their targets. In the Open Source model, benefits are distributed. Any revenue that flows between you and your client is for your account only. You share it with noone. In the proprietary model you are always paying away royalties fees to some distant corporation. You are kidding yourself on "your markup" - it is a licence fee nothing more.

Try this:

goto

http://www.turbocash.net

download a free accounting package and open a whole new horizon of opportunities. Yesterday over 900 people downloaded TurboCASH and over 100 new users registered, they can't all be wrong.

kevin503's picture

Stop the spam please

kevin503 | | Permalink

Can we keep to the thread of the topic, ie Sage, and not become a spam forum for individuals to advertise their own software.

Pan calling Kettle......

Anonymous | | Permalink

Kevin503 wrote:

"My advice? .................. Develop an ongoing, trusting relationship with a Sage reseller "

 

 

philipdc's picture

No Offense meant

philipdc | | Permalink

No offense meant Kevin. I just want to show you alternatives when you get a bug in software. There is another way. Nobody is closed here to alternatives right?

No no no no no

infox | | Permalink

a) I've been working with Sage since the 1980s. Even back then it could cope with tens of thousands of transactions on a basic Windows network with basic business PCs and a basic server. It was a well-designed program managing a good clean database design.

b) the volumes of data you and we are talking about are trivially small, in the grand scheme of things, and in no way should require the kind of technology and investment you and Sage are mandating.

c) running a database program on a slow PC and slow network should at worst result in slow response times and *never* lost or corrupted data.

d) Sage have sacrificed technical competence on the altar of marketing monopoly.

 

Absolutely Spot On

ronnieh | | Permalink

My sentiments entirely, pointless having a relatively inexpensive bit of software if you need expensive kit to use it.

Why don't they just convert their databases to use MYSQL? I'm sure it would run a lot quicker, be more reliable and easier to fix when things go wrong. 

SQL

Myshkin | | Permalink

Sage have been trying to convert their non-database based software to SQL for ages.  It would solve all the problems mentioned above.  But there seems to a problem as they keep leaking release dates but nothing ever happens. 

SQL again

Myshkin | | Permalink

But then the problem could be of course that Sage make 65% of their income from support and that would vanish overnight if they switched to SQL.

kevinthompson's picture

Customer Service at Sage

kevinthompson | | Permalink

Hi

We have noticed that some of you are unhappy with our software and we wanted to assure you that we are working hard to ensure you have the best possible experience.

Whether via our quarterly user groups, our regular customer visits or daily interactions via our SageCover service, we are constantly engaging with our customers and incorporating feedback back into the product development cycle.  We also take pride in our SageCover service, which gives 120,000 small businesses software support - only after a six month full time induction, including 13 weeks of deep product immersion, are SageCover staff allowed to answer customer calls, indeed, many businesses often describe us as an extension of their business.

Although it is disappointing to hear that you are not happy, we value your feedback and will ensure we learn from your experiences.  While we strive to ensure every one of our customers has an excellent experience with our software and services, it is clear that some of you have not and we would strongly recommend that you get in touch via our Customer Experience Team on 0800 0731747 (please quote “accountingweb” when you call) so we can resolve your issues.

Kevin Thompson
Head of Customer Service at Sage UK

lindaluvdup's picture

Sage Customer Service

lindaluvdup | | Permalink

Thanks, Kevin,

I have spoken extensively to your customer service team - including the very nice and sympathetic people that contacted me when I got very upset. They apologised and gave me their direct contact details and I did appreciate their efforts, but they can't do anything if the software lets them down - surely that's what it's all supposed to be about. If it worked well we'd all be happy and you wouldn't have long queues of people waiting 3 days for fixes.

I think the people here that have said, effectively, that Sage has got a bit big for it's boots have touched on the truth of the matter - or maybe Sage have got too big for their own good. Ask your good customer services staff, they will tell you that some of your sales staff lie to get sales - if you already know that, you're not taking it seriously enough.

After around 12 years of using Sage Accounts perfectly happily ( with no service contract and no need for one ) I have lost faith and won't be risking another upgrade. Unless you actually do intend to launch Sage accounts using MySQL? Sage customer service have told me this is planned to happen in September this year, is this true? I ask for confirmation as, earlier on in this thread one person threw doubt on Sage's ability to actually achieve this.

-- Lin

Too big to respond

dtooke | | Permalink

In many ways it seems that Sage are just too big to able to respond to the needs of small businesses - e.g. the post above which doesn't say: call me, or contact a Director - it simply says get in touch with our call centre.

They try, and good for them for doing so.

In general, large organisations are almost bound to become slow and unresponsive, there are too many layers of decision making and too many senior managers with agendas. 

Small businesses win business by being responsive and flexible, by making swift decisions, and by meeting their clients needs.

They deserve a business management software system that has a similar philosophy, and that is small enough to want to learn from them.

www.discoveryerp.com

 

 

John Stokdyk's picture

Points put to Sage and some answers received

John Stokdyk | | Permalink

I gathered up the evidence presented by members of this group to Sage and got some interesting responses from their support team, which are included in the article Users gripe over Sage 50 Accounts 2010 upgrade. While the experiences of users here are very real, Sage says the overall trend shows no significant increase on previous upgrades.The article includes diagnoses and remedies for the various problems reported by group members.

I am now waiting to hear back from senior executives on some of the more strategic points raised.

Sage says the overall trend shows no significant increase on pre

dtooke | | Permalink

But not a decrease on previous experience... which one might have hoped for if they had taken previous experience to heart.

Alternatives to Sage

fixings | | Permalink

Have you thought about (or even heard of!) Omni Accounts? We run three businesses, 2 manufacturing and 1 contracting, in the UK and another in the Czech Republic, manufacturing. All are run off Omni. It deals with the usual accounting, with excellent reporting procedures, as well as the complete stock control with recipes for manufacturing.  Foreign currencies are easy. We work in GB £, US Dollars, Euros & Cz Korunas. Both buying and selling.

We have imported data from Sage Line 100, and managed to make it work! Exporting to Excel is a matter of a couple of keystrokes. You only pay for what you want, and if you want more just add the switches and it works. It has been proven for over 10 years.

Best of all you can try it free of charge! We have just taken this product on for the UK so if you would like to try it just contact me (Robert Hall on 01488 686311, roberthall@omni-accounts.co.uk) and I will send you a disc. We have an introductory session on 8th April if you would like to attend.

I hope this is the answer to your prayers.

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