Sage Rounding on Payments on Account

This is not so much a query but a note to make Sage 50 Accounts users aware of (another?) glitch in sage's software.

We have only picked this up since the change in the VAT rate to 20% and sage have confirmed the problem exists but cannot advise how quickly it will be sorted, if at all!!

Basically the problem arises if you use cash accounting and you post a payment on account to a customer or supplier account. If you post a figure like £528.75 as the total amount received and set the VAT rate to apply as 20%, sage completes the posting as

Net £440.63

VAT £88.13

Therefore the resulting posting of the payment is 1p more to the bank account. 

We have been advised that this is due to rounding, although how sage can alter a total to match how it rounds the net and VAT elements, I do no know! - This goes against all principles of basic accounting.

The only solution sage have proposed at this time is either editing the transaction through maintenance or doing a journal to write off the penny differences. 

Any thoughts on solutions (other than throwing Sage software in the bin and moving to alternative software) to this would be appreciated.

Comments

Rounding...

johndon68 | | Permalink

Whilst I'm not, for a second, suggesting that this is correct, this has always been an issue it's just that, depending on the VAT Rate, it affects different values, i.e. when the rate was 17.5%, this still happened, just with different values to the one you mention...

John

This has always been an issue

sandyhatter | | Permalink

John,

Thanks for the comment

It is not something I have come across before and caused us no problems during the previous VAT changes. On the basis of your comments, if it is a long standing issue, even more reason for Sage to have sorted it by now. 

Gross Prices...

johndon68 | | Permalink

A similar thing happens if you sell using gross prices, for example, if you sell an item on a product invoice with a gross price of £7.75, if you enter the relevant Net Price, when the VAT is caclulated, you end up with a value of 7.76.  In that instance, you can get round it by manually entering 7.75 as the Net and then using 'Calc Net'.

Again, this has always been an issue, just with different amounts depending on the VAT Rate - I think the reason that a lot of people are just coming across it is that the VAT Rate is now a nice round number that 5 is exactly divisible by...

John

VAT Rounding

Yonder Dave | | Permalink

There have always been problems in the past with VAT Cash Accounting, but when posting a POA the total was always the same as the figure entered as the "Amount". When asked "Do you want to post this as a payment on account?" Sage usually rounded the VAT the same way on the subsequent customer invoice. Unfortunately this sometimes caused problems with supplier prepayments if the suppliers software rounded in the other direction on their invoice.

Sandy, are you saying that even though £528.75 is entered in the Amount box in Customer Recipts, and Sage says "There is an unallocated cheque balance of £528.75. Do you want to Post this as a Payment on Account?" and with VAT rate set at 20%, it will post £528.76 to the cutomer and bank accounts?

Dave

VAT Rounding...

johndon68 | | Permalink

@Dave, yes that is what happens, you end up with a gross amount of £528.76 - I tried it in Sage prior to posting my initial response...

John

VAT Rounding

Yonder Dave | | Permalink

Further to above I have just tried this in practice company and Sandy is right.

As far as I am aware this is a new problem; in the past the total amount posted was always the amount entered. I do not like the sound of Sage's response and I hope they are working on a fix. Otherwise this is going to be a serious problem.

Dave

Vat when duplicating a Purchase Order

D_Smith | | Permalink

 Slightly off topic but still related to vat, I've noticed the Vat doesn't change when I duplicate a purchase order.

 I duplicated PO. 123 which was vat rated 17.5% after I had changed T1 to 20% and the PO still had the 17.5% amount, even though the order details showed 20%. Not a big deal, just a little niggle. When the Vat rate changed, I was a bit concerned about how Sage would handle it, so I set T11 as the new 20% rate. My problem then was that Sage defaults to T1 and I couldn't find where to set T11 as the default code. So, I set T1 to 20% and now have to manually check that Sage is calculating the correct rate when I duplicate a purchase order. 

VAT & Purchase Orders

johndon68 | | Permalink

I have to admit I've never used it but, my understanding is that the VAT Change Utility that Sage produced would go through any memorised orders/invoices and change the VAT accordingly.

John

Duplicate Sales Orders

sandyhatter | | Permalink

When you duplicate an invoice or sales order, sage does exactly that, duplicates it. You then have to change anything which is different on this order/invoice.

The changing of the T1 code in Sage is purely a reference tooland will only be used when creating a new entry.

An entry on the audit trail will not alter it's VAT either. If the T1 code were to change things when it was amended this would cause all sorts of issues.

John - memorised reports are something different from using the duplicate button on a previously created item.

 

Vat and Carriage - duplicating PO's

D_Smith | | Permalink

Thanks for the replies.

I've just duplicated another PO and checked the Vat on the goods. 

Printed it, pdf'd it, emailed it to the supplier, then saw the carriage.

It was £12 carriage and the vat at 20% should be £2.40.

The PO calculated the VAT as £2.10 - the old 17.5% rate - even though it shows T1 as 20% 

I'll have to watch out for that too :-)

 

Duplicating PO

johndon68 | | Permalink

@sandy_hatter

You are, of course, correct, I read 'duplicate' and my brain replaced it with 'recalled'...

John

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