"Nice program - shame about the bugs & support"

Having used TAS for 14 years, this was definitely a problem with the earlier Windows versions, especially on a network. Since 2008, when TAS upgraded the database, this has improved things hugely – much faster and more reliable than ever. You can even get an unlimited user licence now! I can’t comment on the recent support service because I have not had to use it for quite some time.

I've used TAS for 15 years, use it every day in my practice and I have been a TAS Accountants Club member (formerly Partners in Practice) for a few years as well. Having said that TAS the company irritates me. The software is buggy and I often have to invent workarounds. Support hardly ever respond when submitting fault/bug reports. I gave up submitting them years ago due to the zero feedback. I submitted again a few years later but silll got zero feedback so now I don't bother at all but spend the time trying to finding my own solutions. Admittedly these bugs are of a minor nature.

I invested in the TAS Books for Accountants Practice Edition which was launched in early 2009. The concept of this is excellent for practitioners but whether the huge price tag is worth it I am not sure. Being version 8 it only works with individual application data of version 8 or higher (there are none higher yet). This encourages users to upgrade from earlier versions but can cause annoyance.  I pursuaded TAS to let me have the individual TAS applications as well because there are times when you need to do things with client data that the Practice edition cannot do. For example I can upgrade a client's data to v8 for my use but they can't have it back unless they upgrade. The Practice Edition version 8 is now a year old and we could do with an upgrade to improve it and remove some of the bugs.

Last year I introduced a client of mine to TAS Books Basic, the free version 7 you could download. All went well until I started using the Practice Edition when the client had to pay to upgrade to version 8 so I could import and review their data. When they changed their computer and re-installed Basic v8 I could no longer load their data into the Practice Edition. The client phoned TAS support several times and got different "solutions" each time. I phoned TAS who agreed to send me a complimentary copy of Basic v8 so I could access the client's data. After receiving CDs from TAS of a corrupt v8, an incorrect v7 and a promise of another v8 which never showed up I ended up installing the client's copy of v8 "illegally" just to get my hands on their data and get their vat return submitted on time. The promised copy still hasn't showed up and that was January when its the worst time of year for us to deal with poor service. Now I no longer need it but the client has a pretty poor impression of TAS the company and the original problem of reviewing the Basic v8 data in Practice Edition is still there. Needless to say I won't be extolling the virtues of TAS Basic version to anyone in future. (TAS if your reading this feel free to research possible solutions for me.)

Having said all that I would not change. TAS is a very good concept, I love it and I have invested 15 years of my time on it. The company needs to get a grip on its service and support. TAS, please answer me this "why did the e-contact emails for partners from Matt Forrest's (Head of TAS) stop in July 2009?" I used to find these monthly updates very useful - now I don't have a clue what's going on inside TAS the company or what your current aims or strategies are.

Stephen Quay

I was one of about 15 people that attended the first "User Group" meeting about 2-3 years ago near Reading...the first of a regular series apparently..... not sure how regular it is - but heard nothing since!!!

I am another long term user of TAS going back to its very early days....support on running it across a Citrix environment was non-existent - "we have not tried it" they said.......but our IT guys got it working - all credit to them with some limited assistance from TAS Support.....

I too have used TAS proudly since 1994.  Last year they doubled cost of the accountants' club and I continue with just the payroll. 

We have been moving to online bookkeeping since and feel it is the way to go.  Instant access to clients' accounts and no version or backup problems.

I too attended one of the get togethers at Villa Park in 2004, but the next one was cancelled.

I have found the help people very good, but the changes in software caused such complications that I had to get my IT guy in to sort the problems out.

We still use TAS and recommend it, but they need to move with the times and stay loyal to the accountants who know it is a much better product than Sh....... you know who.

Charles Stringer

Stephen, thanks for your feedback on TAS Basics.

I think it’s fair to say that Basics has been far more popular than we ever expected. We’ve had some feedback from Accountants and we’re considering the options on support for Basics in TASBooks for Accountants. Of course, if you wish, you can use the free software included in your Accountants Club membership and offer your clients a free or reduced cost copy of FirstBooks.

An update to TASBooks for Accountants is in testing at the moment and is scheduled for release in the next few weeks. This update will add support for the new FirstBooks and TASBooks programs released towards the end of last year. This will be delivered direct to existing customers using the program’s built-in auto-update system.

I’ve looked into eContact newsletters – they are still being sent and you are on the mailing list. They haven’t been as frequent since the autumn, as we now have a new Head of TAS, Jim McGlen. (Matt Forrest has moved on to another role within Sage.) So whilst Jim has been settling into the ‘big seat’, the newsletter has been a little bit light on future strategy – but that part of the newsletter will return.

I was also at that session in Reading, it was very constructive and the start of the process in developing TASBooks for Accountants. We actually had far more accountants and bookkeepers interested in attending a session than we could accommodate; so unfortunately we couldn’t invite everyone back, as we wanted to get a good mix of input from variety of customers.

We also use other ways to get customer feedback; for example our in-product surveys have a high response rate and enable us to get input from far more customers than we could ever meet face-to-face.

We don’t have any group sessions scheduled at present. If we do another round of group sessions, it’ll be mentioned in our eContact newsletter and I’ll post something here for anyone who’s interested in attending.

Thanks for your feedback Charles.

When we updated our Accountants' Club, we wanted to make sure it was designed to recognise loyal accountant customers like you. So not only do you get software for your own use, we also include extra software worth up to £900. This extra software is yours to give away-or sell-to your clients and pretty much covers the cost of membership. We also offer generous discounts on TAS programs if you want to resell software. And if you don’t want to resell, you can get a discount on your membership renewal for every customer you refer directly to TAS.

All-in-all, that’s a pretty good package and we’ve had lots of positive feedback from customers about the new Accountants' Club packages.

Thank you David Richards from TAS for replying.

You have said your premise for the Accountants Club Practice Edition is to avoid the need to have multiple versions of TAS installed. While this is a great idea, in real life many clients are sill using version 7 and earlier products. Currently Practice Edition cannot upgrade these to version 8 so it is paramount that we maintain the many versions of TAS on computer to enable us to work with clients' old data. Whether I use the original TAS application to upgrade the data to version 8 and use it in Practice Edition or keep it in its original TAS form is for me to decide but without the original TAS versions it would be an unworkable situation.

I am pleased you have said that an upgrade is due out in the next few weeks. Can you assure me that the new Practice Edition will allow upgrades from earlier versions or will you continue to allow us to have the individual TAS applications as well.

Stephen Quay

Stephen,

We based the design of TASBooks for Accountants on what Accountants and Bookkeepers told us they wanted. The key requirements were;

• being able to work with data from multiple programs (rather than having to install a copy of every TAS program)
• being able to work with data from multiple versions (rather than having to install copies of every version)
• knowing that when you returned data to your client, it was always for the same program and version that was sent to you

So we've always said that TASBooks for Accountants will;

• enable you to work with data from any of the currently supported versions (in line with our published product retirement policy)
• never upgrade client's data to a later version
• add support for new versions (usually 3-6 months after they are released)

But we also said that we were "drawing a line in the sand"; TASBooks for Accountants would work with data from the programs we were selling at the time - but we couldn't add support for previous versions. Quite simply we had to make changes to our programs so that data could work with TASBooks for Accountants. For example, from TAS BOOKS v8 onwards, clients can authorise your practice (and only your practice) to access their data - but without them needing to tell you their password. That keeps their data secure and avoids any query about who changed what. It's a feature that didn't exist in the older programs.

So there are no change to those three principles in the forthcoming update to TASBooks for Accounts.

As for continuing to use older versions, well strictly speaking you're not meant to use older versions of software once we provide you with an update – but we recognise the special situation of accountants in practice. So whilst we’re in this ‘transition phase’ (where not all of our currently supported versions can be used with TASBooks for Accountants), members of the TAS Accountants’ Club can access and install those older versions by downloading them from our website.

Thanks David for your encouraging reply. Its good to know TAS's thought on this. By the way I try to encourage clients to upgrade to the latest version when the opportunity presents itself. Some do and some see it as a totally unnecessary expense. Accountants are caught in the middle which you have acknowledged in your post.

Stephen Quay

In response to David Richards from TAS. We are now several months on from the last postings and still no sign of the promised update although I understand from a recent phone call that it is still imminent.

In respect of my comments previously about TAS Basic v8 and not able to import it. It was suggested I use my club membership free software entitlement to upgrade my client to First Books. I tried this but my TAS account manager told me this free allowance was only to be used for new clients. Apparently I was not allowed to upgrade an existing client. And I certainly wasn't allowed to have the software to give to whoever I liked. Hrrmph! This is certainly not the impression one gets from the information on the TAS web site. So who is right?

During my annual visit to another of my clients to whom  I had originally sold TAS Books 2, I noticed they had upgraded to the lastest TAS Books v1 (this is the old TAS books 2 and 3 revamped). Imagine my surprise when I brought the data back to my office and couldn't import it into TAS Books for Accountants. Support comfirmed it was not compatible. Amazing! Yet again I had to work round this by using my partner edition of TAS Books.

I feel TAS the company is failing in its duty to help accountants. It fails to communicate with us, fails to keep us informed of product development, incompatibilities and bugs. The website contains misleading information. TAS products automatically check for updates when starting up but there is no information telling us why there is an update or what has changed. Refer to the release notes and they haven't been updated either. The TAS website has a facility to obtain new software registration codes. I tried this recently when my products were about to expire - it didn't work - none of my serial numbers were recognised. However a list of serial numbers emailed to TAS registrations did elicit a very quick response so thank you to them.

Stephen Quay

Like most in this group, we have been loyal TAS users (industry - not private practice) for some 14 years.  Yes, there was the severe drop in service when Sage acquired TAS, but things have bounced back. I find their tech. support excellent and improving all the time.

This past week we have had issues with reconciling our data and which required three returns of data for rectification.  TAS doggedly persisted in resolving the issues spending hours on it.

Bravo TAS.

Jack Galaun

We're long time users of TAS Books, have migrated through the various versions and are now using the latest TASBooks, Multi user with stock control etc.

In my experience of the product, it's great if you are happy doing things the way the software designer expected. The problem is that the software guy hasn't thought too much about the real world.

As a simple example, the postcode lookup function is really useful in the latest version. However, we quickly found that it doesn't return the full address (e.g. company name) and doesn't populate the country field. So simple and time-saving, yet completely overlooked. This could be addressed by just setting up a default country for new accounts, but this is clearly too complex for them to think of...

There are many such TAS'isms that we find.

On the up-side, it is among the nicest to use - the GUI etc is great.

Support feedback is poor. They fix things on the phone, but hardly ever seem to make in-version enhancements. I have not renewed my support several times for this reason, only waiting for a significant improvement to negotiate a new deal.

I totally agree about feedback.  Some many years ago I was told to put down a 'wish list' of enhancements.  Nothing ever came of them.

I have my own 'annoying' items.  Customer references are now so much longer than the space allocated when inputting invoices.  These reference can be crucial when paying suppliers who need to allocate my cash correctly.

Likewise space in sales for referencing a cash receeipt.

Likewise don't the programers know about Direct debits, BACS which could be in the payments' drop down menus.

The list could become endless.

Having said that, a few years ago, after an upgrade I noticed a major omission that the programers had not seen and deleted (booking returned stock back into stock from a credit note).  I went loopy and got in touch with Greg Ford, the then MD.  He got the programmers there and then to construct a patch which was published a few hours later.  That was great.

Greg then said I should become a beta tester for V6 which I did.  I submitted several suggestions which I was assured would be passed to R & D.  Go back to paragraphs 2,3,4,5 above!!!

A great shame as the software could become really fantastic with just a little more effort and appreciation of the needs of end users.

Jack

"In my experience of the product, it's great if you are happy doing things the way the software designer expected. The problem is that the software guy hasn't thought too much about the real world."

I don't know if I count as one of the 'software guys', but I can assure you that I (and the rest of the team in TAS) do think long and hard about how the software works in the real world.

"As a simple example, the postcode lookup function is really useful in the latest version. However, we quickly found that it doesn't return the full address (e.g. company name) and doesn't populate the country field. So simple and time-saving, yet completely overlooked. This could be addressed by just setting up a default country for new accounts, but this is clearly too complex for them to think of..."

I'm pleased that you find the postcode lookup really useful. When adding it to the program, we had to make sure that it could be easily integrated into existing processes and that it was simple to use. The postcode lookup service is provided by a third party who sources the data from the Royal Mail's Postcode Address File (PAF). As for not automatically adding a company name or completing the country field; there are some good reasons for this:

• When creating a new customer or supplier record, the current process is to enter the customer/supplier name before you start to enter the address. We could have changed the entire process, but that would inconvenience everyone who would have to learn a new process.
• Where the PAF does have a company name, it's not necessarily the name that you'd want to use in your accounts program. For example, say you want to add TAS as a supplier; the record for our postcode only has the name of our parent company. Having to constantly correct wrong names would soon become frustrating.
• As for the country field. Well, most people only use the country field when the customer/supplier is overseas. In everyday life, people don't usually write 'United Kingdom' as part of the address on letters.

And this is all before you address the issue of counties; which have not been required as part of the postal address for a few years now, but most people still use them. Do you use the 'former postal county', the 'administrative county' or 'traditional county'?

So the points you mention weren't overlooked and they weren't just too complex for us to address - but in recognising that every business works in a different way, we had to weigh up the various alternatives and settled on something that provided 'maximum usefulness for minimum inconvenience'.

Thanks for the response.

Does this mean you are the the 'software guy' who will respond in detail to all our gripes, and attend to them?  Or are us usersl flogging dead horses and living in vain hope that our wish lists and real time user recommendations will ever be taken on board?

Jack Galaun  (Working, and using TAS on Sunday!!)

David

Thanks for your comments.

1. Like other TAS processes you could have given us the option of what data (company name, county etc) is returned and which method to use to create customers. You have added these new 'step-by-step' methods for creating new customers etc and settings could be added to the TAS configuration settings.

2. I'd rather correct a wrong name sometimes than have to type a name every time.

3. Country field could easily be given a default setting and over-ridden if wanted.

The Postcode example was just one area that sprang to mind.

I prefer the software approach of allowing admin users to create lots of defaults and choose if/how things return data - it makes for the fastest, yet flexible, user processes.

As an example, 75% of our customer have the same settings (market code, price basis etc) but only some of this can be defaulted.

My comments above aren't criticisms, they are just examples of how you might have approached the issues you highlight.

Anyway, it's nice to see that you're reading these comments.

I would love to participate in a 'how to improve/fix TAS forum' - but only if we actually see the ideas coming through in running changes, not 'next version' which seems so often to be the case.

Dale

I would love to participate in a 'how to improve/fix TAS forum' - but only if we actually see the ideas coming through in running changes, not 'next version' which seems so often to be the case.

Hear, hear.

Jack

 Posted by JackGalaun

"I totally agree about feedback.  Some many years ago I was told to put down a 'wish list' of enhancements. Nothing ever came of them."

We encourage our customers to send in their 'wishes' and enhancement requests. All requests are reviewed by me or my colleagues. But with tens of thousands of users, unfortunately it's just not possible for me to reply in detail to every single change request. 

'Wishlist' requests really do make a difference - in the past few years I can only think of a handful of new product features that haven't started life as an enhancement request from a customer. We analyse, develop and adapt those change requests. Sometimes they change dramatically in development; because rather than implementing the request unaltered, we meet the underlying need in a completely different way. 

Like any other commercial business we'll prioritise those requests that we feel will give us the maximum commercial benefit; i.e. those that will appeal to the majority of customers. That's because there's no way we could incorporate every single request into the program. Even with an infinite number of programmers and an unlimited amount of time, it still wouldn't be possible - for the simple reason that many requests contradict other requests.

"Likewise don't the programers know about Direct debits, BACS which could be in the payments' drop down menus."

We call a BACS payment an ePayment in the drop down menus. The reason for this is that whilst BACS is the name of the company that operates the electronic payments clearing system in the UK, in Ireland the equivalent company is called IRECC. In the UK many people might refer to a BACS payment, but in Ireland no-one will refer to an IRECC payment. So calling it BACS/IRECC seemed rather unhelpful, therefore we called it an ePayment to describe what it is. We also have Transfer to cover both Direct Debits and Standing Orders.

"Does this mean you are the the 'software guy' who will respond in detail to all our gripes, and attend to them?  Or are us users flogging dead horses and living in vain hope that our wish lists and real time user recommendations will ever be taken on board?"

Well I can certainly promise to take notice of your requests and concerns - but (as noted above) with the best will in the world, I can't promise to respond to every single one in detail.

Thanks

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Can we dedicated users form an orderly queue with solid suggestions?

Jack Galaun

Posted by daleblackman 

"Like other TAS processes you could have given us the option of what data (company name, county etc) is returned and which method to use to create customers. You have added these new 'step-by-step' methods for creating new customers etc and settings could be added to the TAS configuration settings." 

Sometimes there has to be a trade-off between flexibility and simplicity. At TAS we're all about simplicity. When we ask our customers what they like most about FirstBooks and TASBooks, the first thing they tell us is it's the simplicity - that TAS is so easy to use.

As a TASBooks user, the step-by-step 'assistants' may be new to you - but they've been around for a long time in FirstBooks (and it's predecessor products). We had feedback from customers who moved up from FirstBooks to TASBooks saying that they found the change in user interface daunting and suggesting that we could add the assistants and the TASNav flowcharts (process maps) to TASBooks. So we did. The objective was to help people moving from one product to the other, so by definition it was essential to keep the process the same.

You may (or may not) be surprised to know that around half of the enhancement requests we get from customers are for things that are already in the program - it's just that if it's hidden away in some obscure settings menu, the customer hasn't found it. We've spent quite a bit of time and effort in the last couple of years to try and improve the usability of configuring various options (and yes there is still a lot more to do) by trying to simplify them, explain the choices better and improve the information in the program's help system.

So we're back to the flexibility v simplicity trade-off. We could have redesigned the process to add an extra step to the new customer/supplier 'assistant', asking if you wanted to start off with the postcode or company name. But that would add an extra step for everyone - that would irritate lots of people and just lead to me being inundated with complaints. We could have created a second, alternative version of the new customer/supplier 'assistant', with the ability to choose which version you wanted in the configuration settings - but given the choice of doing that, or doing something else that would be more useful to more people... we chose to do something that would be more useful to more people. That's not to say that we'll never do it, just that right now there are other things which are a higher priority.

The fact that we didn't do those things does not mean that we didn't consider them, or that we haven't thought about the real world. Just that we've decided it's not the right thing to do right now.

"I would love to participate in a 'how to improve/fix TAS forum' - but only if we actually see the ideas coming through in running changes, not 'next version' which seems so often to be the case."

Since releasing TASBooks v1, we've published four updates to the program. in those updates (at a rough guess) we've incorporated about a dozen 'wishlist' requests, about two dozen 'cosmetic changes' (i.e. changes that don't actually affect program functionality directly) and a similar number of changes to the 'user assistance' (i.e. helpfile, PDF manual, etc.).

A few months ago we relaunched TAS Consult, our usability and design panel. If you didn't see the email you can find out more about it and sign up if you want to participate.

Posted by JackGalaun on Thu, 12/08/2010 - 08:24

"Can we dedicated users form an orderly queue with solid suggestions?"

You can indeed. The best way is via contacting our support team, or you can post it here if you wish. I've also been looking at web-based offerings that enable customers to suggest enhancements and allow others to comment - with a view to adding that facility to our website.

Here's a suggestion from me in return. An enhancement request is more likely to make it into the program if it has wide application. So rather than just asking us to change something, tell us why you want that change... what are you trying to achieve... what problem are you trying to solve... how will it help you. It could be that the specific change you requested will not benefit any people, or indeed might have a negative impact on most users. But if we know what the underlying need is, we might be able to solve the problem in a different way - or in way that can benefit many other users.

David

Thanks for your responses - I don't want you to think that we're ungrateful, TAS is a really good application - however, when we find something that doesn't work the way we want it too it can get very frustrating. I take on board your comments about 'wide appeal' etc, but sometimes things just don't seem to make sense in any universe.

Here is my first 'kick off' idea:

Customer notes.

1. As far as I can see, these can only be amended or viewed when maintaining or viewing a customer.

2. I believe it would be very useful to be able to display any notes when raising a sales order (or purchase order for suppliers). Perhaps this could display as a pop-up (only if notes are present) and as an additional Tab that could be selected (alongside customer details) - or perhaps they could be displayed on the customer details tab but space is limited here). The idea of having both is so that the pop-up can prompt, whilst the tab can be referred too during order entry.

3. This would allow the notes to inform staff about special terms agreed on a particular item etc.

4. The pop-up should be on/off selectable from config settings to provide maximum flexibility. The Tab could be always present.

5. It would also be helpful if the Notes could be updated without having to enter customer maintenance - just to make them highly accessible and useful.

Hope this idea starts a debate about this feature.

Incidentally, this isn't my #1 gripe - it's just something that I think should be simple and useful to everyone.

Dale

Excellent idea - it would be so useful for us.  We also have customers on pro forma (after slapped writs) and can only now indicate these by having stars against their names!

BY THE WAY, What changes have been made which are incorporated in the latest upgrade to 1.05.2285?

Thanks

Jack Galaun

"What changes have been made which are incorporated in the latest upgrade to 1.05.2285?"
Posted by JackGalaun on Mon, 13/09/2010 - 12:05

The reason why you haven't seen a message about v1.05 is because it's currently on a gradual roll out (i.e. it gets delivered to 1 in 10 updates requests, then 1 in 5, then 1 in 2). We always do this for a couple of days after publishing an update, to avoid our systems getting overloaded. When an update becomes available to everyone (for this release, that'll be by Wednesday at the latest), then we publish a note using the program's built-in TASInform news feed.

v1.05 doesn't make any changes to the main program itself. It's mainly a roll-up release to ensure that various add-ons (such as the PDF generator and the filing by Internet module) are all up to date. It also updates the auto-update system itself, making it easier for us to distribute major version upgrades (e.g. v1 to v2) using the same system.

Thanks for that.

Jack

Hi

Downloaded V2 a few hours ago.

Am I the first to discover a glitch?  2.4.2 - one could previously range all debtors by 'Oldest invoice date' order.  V2 is glitched.  Technician said he would pass it on to R & D.

Otherwise it seems to contain a few worthy enhancements.

Jack

Like a number of the previous contributors I have been using TAS Books for many years, I think, 17 years since the first DOS version. I have introduced countless people to TAS and been an avid TAS fan if there is such a person.

I have a single user multi-company version on which I maintain the accounts for a handful of businesses and with the long experience of using TAS I have never considered it necessary to pay for technical support. In fact I spent a lot of time commenting on functionality etc prior to the program being transferred to Windows.

Time marches on and I was persudaded, following the incessant calls from sales department, to upgrade last year. Having been persuaded to part with some £250 I declined the stupendous offer of extending the three month's support and I have been quietly continuing to use the program without any great issue that I could not resolve. I have made suggestions by email, but as previous contributors have reported, these have never been acknowledged.

Last month I was persuaded by my son to upgrade to Windows 7 and I re-installed all the programs that I use without issue although some less common programs did require an upgrade (free in all instances). So I called SAGE support and asked for an upgrade to enable me to continue to use TAS and was promptly transferred to sales department. I wonder why?

Imagine my surprise to be told that the program that I purchased 13 months previously is not capable of running on a Windows 7 operating system. I was offered another new version - this time £350 + that is currently being released. I was warned that SAGE will not provide any support for this replacement version when a further version is released in 2011, so perhaps I should buy a full support package at a total cost of £500 + in case the new program doesn't work with Windows 7 and which will entitle me to a free upgrade if launched within 12 months.

What I find inexcusable is the sale to me last year of a version that SAGE must have been fully aware would not be compatible with the Windows operating system used by close on 100% of its users when SAGE knew the Windows 7 version was due for release by Microsoft a matter of days later. I am now being asked to part with £500 to guarantee that the new version will be supported and replaced!

To add insult to injury I was warned that as the about-to-be-released version has not been fully tested/approved, it might or might not work with Windows 7. I am too long in the tooth to want to try to learn a new program from another, possibly more ethical, company so I am stuck with TAS.

I do, however, have a suggestion for any reader in a similar situation. Rather than pay SAGE £500, why not spend £300 on a new laptop running either XP or Vista and transfer the program and data? Or better - as I have done - find a redundant PC/laptop to maintain the accounts, after all TAS runs very quickly so state of the art PC is not necessary and there is certainly no perceivable benefit from lining the pockets of SAGE.

Sorry for this rant - but I find SAGE's attitude deplorable especially given the support that I have personally given to TAS over the years.

Some versions of Windows 7 have XP mode included. This allows you to run a full (supplied) version of XP in a virtual machine within Windows 7, and is seamless - ie the program runs in a window as if it were a Windows 7 program, but is running on XP under the bonnet. If your version of Win 7 allows XP mode it is a free download.

That way you could continue with the version you have and could avoid giving large amounts of money to a WDC* company 

* We Don't Care

Thanks 'woodworm' - an excellent suggestion although I will have to stick with the old laptop as I have the Home version of Windows 7.

I wonder why SAGE support didn't mention that to me but passed me to sales department?

Paul, the first thing I can do is to try and clear up some points of confusion. Although TAS is now owned by Sage, we still operate as an independent business. Our sales and support teams have no connection with Sage's sales or support teams. Our product retirement policy is clearly stated on our website, as is our statement on Windows 7 compatibility.

Most programs include some components that are supplied by third parties. In TASBooks we use a database supplied by Pervasive, a PDF generator supplied by Amyuni, encryption technologies for filing VAT returns with HMRC and standard controls for toolbars, graphs and so on. TASBooks v1 was released prior to the release of Windows 7 and it can take a few months before all these components are updated to versions that are 'officially Windows 7 compatible'.

As an example we use the Amyuni PDF generator in our programs. The first 'officially Windows 7 compatible' version of this did not appear until early 2010 - but it had significant stability and reliability issues, so we did not deploy it. It wasn't until May 2010 that we received a version that was both 'officially Windows 7 compatible' and stable enough for us to deploy. We published an update to TASBooks (v1.04) in the last week of May 2010 using our auto-update system. At the same time we pusblished a message to all TASBooks v1 customers, using the TASInform system built-in to all of our programs and we updated the information on our website. In fact that information is still showing on our website - it was due to be updated this weekend for TASBooks v2 which was released on Monday 8 November. I have halted this change so you can see for yourself exactly what we said.

So, although the issues regarding Windows 7 compatibility were relatively minor and quite specific, we couldn't hand-on-heart say that TASBooks v1 was 'officially Windows 7 compatible'. However, we could say that TAS worked fine on Windows 7 - and stated so on our website. We also highlighted the options available to Windows 7 users.

Compared to earlier versions of Windows, Windows 7 has more far more functionality to deal with any compaitibility issues. There's the XP mode mentioned by woodworm, which is available in Windows 7 Professional and above. XP mode is a virtual machine running Windows XP, which integrates with the Windows 7 desktop. There's also a compatibility mode which is available in all versions of Windows 7. Both these options are highlighted on our website.

Moving on to the telephone conversations you've had. Well I'll be quite honest; if you spoke to the support team this week and asked for an upgrade, I wouldn't be at all surprised that they passed you to sales. Being that TASBooks v2 went on sale this week, they would have spoken to quite a few people asking about ordering an upgrade. Obviously I don't know the exact content of the conversations that you've had. But if what you've said is accurate, I'm not going to try and defend or excuse it. At the very least it highlights a training need for that employee. At worst it shows a lack of professionalism that we will need to deal with. I've already made Simon Pickering (our customer operations manager) aware of your posts. Simon is responsible for the Sales and Software Support teams. If you could PM me with your account details and let me know when you called (and if you remember, who you spoke to) then he'll be on the case first thing on Monday morning.

Finally, in my contributions to this forum, I've always tried to be open and honest. Woodworm, yes I know it's easy to assume that large faceless corporations don't care. But at TAS we're a relatively small business, not a large faceless corporation. And we're real people, who do care. To be honest, if I didn't care I'd be out of a job fairly quickly. If I didn't care I wouldn't be spending my Saturday evening composing and posting a reply.

Thank you for your response David. My "We Don't Care" comment was a throw-away line, and was born out of my deep distrust of Sage.

I used TAS for some years and at the time I was a satisfied customer - and I am happy to hear that you retain independence. I am now a happy cloud dweller - which is a pro-cloud thing rather than an anti-TAS thing. I run a payroll agency, and I found Moneysoft better suited than TAS to my needs. 

But many congratulations for being prepared to face up to your critics so constructively!

John Clegg

Healthpay Payroll

Apology accepted. And thank you for your kind response.

I'm sorry we lost you as a customer. Maybe one day we'll be able to tempt you back!

regards

David

I like to test all new versions before rolling out within the firm, the first part of this test is to read the information provided with the software.

With  the automatic delivery system how is this even possible with version 2 especially on a work group/network scenario with the combined licence approach where all machines have to be upgraded at once?

The website information(http://support.tassoftware.co.uk/Support/Home.aspx?tid=258249&stid=318901) has the lovely paragraph:

<blockquote>
Now you're ready to go...

There are around 35 new or improved features included in TASBooks 2 - and we've made around 200 other improvements and fixes. So before you jump right in and start using TASBooks v2, why not take a few minutes to check on the main changes and new features included in this release.

We've created a special section in the TASBooks helpfile - just click Help on the toolbar in any TASBooks company and select What's new in TASBooks. And don't forget to check the release notes, which also include any late-breaking details.

</blockquote>

The helpfile is presumably part of the install? Does anyone proff read these pages as an end user ?

Paul M Tate
system admin to Kevin Beare & Co.

Paul

Well spotted - no 'check the release notes.....'

We printed out the Release notes and have read them.  I cannot quite get orgasmic about "There are around 35 new or improved features included in TASBooks 2 - and we've made around 200 other improvements and fixes." 200 improvements and fixes - mmmmmm.   But some of them are quite cute and useful.

Meanwhile they 'broke' something in the process about which I have already posted.  For a company such as ours with several salesmen in a distributor/retailer environment, credit control is vital for which purposes an extermely urgent fix is needed.

Jack Galaun

1000 Mile Sportswear Limited

Thanks David for your full reply. I confess that I did not think to look at the TAS website before telephoning for an upgrade.

On refelection I think you might agree that it would have been helpful if the support staff had suggested the Windows 7/XP solution rather than attempt to sell the next version and a support contract. If TAS are genuinely not trying to 'up-sell' then it seems to me that the staff - support and sales - need some better training, and possibly this could include insisting that they read the support pages in the website!

Having taken a cursory look at the correspondence and User Group comments, it occurs to me that TAS could well benefit from providing a basic version for users like me who do not require complex stock control etc. All I need is a simple accounting program - just like the original TAS Books of the 1990's. You might also consider a modular approach whereby the program could grow with the user and this would provide TAS with a larger slice of the SME market through competitive start-up pricing. 

I quite agree with pmtate. Other professional software suppliers send an email detailing the improvements and bug fixes before applying the update. This also alerts you to the fact that an update is imminent and why it is necessary.

Stephen Quay

Thanks for your comments Paul.

The person responsible for writing the paragraphs you quoted was me. And yes it was proof read.  

We've been criticised in the past for not drawing people's attention to changes in the program. So that's what we're doing. For example; one of the new features in this version means that you don't have to run the 'Transfer profit to balance sheet' (option 147) after posting a transaction for the previous year. But you have to specifically switch on the functionality in existing datasets. If you read the information in the helpfile (or the release notes, which were linked in the section you quoted) then you'll a) know that and b) know how to switch it on.

So, the purpose of those paragraphs is to say; "OK, now you've installed the update. Before you start using it here's some useful information about some of the changes." It's a bit like when collecting a hire car. They know you can drive; but as they give you the keys, they point out how to unlock the car, what type of fuel it uses, how the headlight controls work and anything that might be unusual on that particular model of car.

Writing information like this is a balancing act. The audience is a mixture of people; some technical, some not. If you give too much information then nothing gets read; too little information means that something important can be missed.

The page you linked to is a summary of the three-step process; that's for the confident 'jump right in people'. You'll have seen that you can click through for more detail on each stage of the process; that's for the more cautious 'take me through step-by-step people' . If you click through on the 'Updating TASBooks to v2' step you'll see the upgrade guide and  release notes are both linked at the top of the page.

Posted by paulharm on Mon, 15/11/2010 - 14:34

Having taken a cursory look at the correspondence and User Group comments, it occurs to me that TAS could well benefit from providing a basic version for users like me who do not require complex stock control etc. All I need is a simple accounting program - just like the original TAS Books of the 1990's.

We actually make four different bookkeeping programs nowadays.

• Basics: This is a free program that's a simple cashbook with customer/supplier ledger. Designed for the novice, most likely with a start-up or very young business.
• FirstBooks: This builds on Basics by adding sales orders & invoice printing, plus simple cashflow forecasting and more. Again a fairly simple program; e.g. there are no multi-user or networking options.
• TASBooks: This is the direct descendant of the original DOS program.
• TASBooks for Accountants. A special edition designed just for accountants in practice. It allows you to work with data from FirstBooks and TASBooks and data from multiple versions of these programs.

You might also consider a modular approach whereby the program could grow with the user and this would provide TAS with a larger slice of the SME market through competitive start-up pricing. 

TASBooks has a couple of add-on modules. One for stock control and purchase order processing and the other for CIS.

Apologies David, I know writing has to be for mulktiple audiences, but I would have thought the first page about Release 2 upgrades should actually be the page about the changes not how to do it and certainly not fundamentally pointing you to a file you only receive after you have updated. As an existing user if I had been pointed to the Upgrade Guide on the download pages first I would not have written my posting.

http://support.tassoftware.co.uk/Downloads/DownloadCentre.aspx?tid=258251&stid=258369&pid=&Downloadshortcut=tsb_upg_v2

Paul

Paul,

Hopefully by now you'll have had a chance to look at the upgrade guide. You'll have noticed that the upgrade guide is mainly concerned with the practical tasks of upgrading. It also covers upgrade scenarios that can't be dealt with via the auto-update system. 

It's the release notes that have information about the new features and how they work. (Although the upgrade guide does repeat some of the detail, it's the release notes that have more information.) The helpfile reinforces and expands what's in the release notes. The helpfile is the appropriate place for that level of information as we can then link on to other relevant topics that are in the helpfile.

Effectively the point of those web pages is to be a website version of the upgrade guide, focusing specifically on what experience tells us that the majority of our customers will do. As I noted earlier, we do link to the upgrade guide at the appropriate place. And as shown in the paragraphs you originally quoted, we clearly have linked to the release notes from that page.

I'm really pleased that you have taken an interest in the documentation we produce; taking the time to read and comment on it. And I know our senior tech author will be pleased too. Because probably 99% of people will just go ahead without reading a single thing.

We can't make everyone happy all of the time. But I think we've got the balance about right this time and I'm comfortable with the information in the Upgrading to TASBooks v2 section of our website.

Hey guys I think we need a little perspective here.

I think it is greaat that at long last we can have a forum where there is someone senior from TAS who is willing and able to take the time to dialogue with us end users.  Some of us who remember TAS in the good old Wimbledon days (Kaz Chuttin, where are you?!) will seriously welcome this advance.

We all get hacked off when issues arise which in our opinion could have been avoided with more 'care'.  I've already reported on one which is most annoying for my business, and I can already see another.  (I'm waiting to see how long this is put right as this is a case of 'you broke it, so fix it'!)

But hopefully Dave you are not merely a copy writer for release notes, but someone who spends his Saturday nights working, and can provide a positive link between coal face users and the R & D and software writers back at base.  

Jack Galaun

Hey Dave

I wrote to you over the weekend with an issue with the latest version - alleged correction of a glitch in the first version of V2.

Do you have any answers - please?

Bestest

Jack

Jack,

Did you contact support about it? Sending an email to me via this site probably isn't the best way to progress support issues. In any event, emails from AccountingWeb go to a personal account which I don't check very often. And it went into the spam filter, so it's lucky that I found it at all.

However, I have looked into it and this is what I understand. The aged debtor report has two main options; the detailed version and the totals only option. In the detailed version it lists the age of every outstanding invoice, and then has a summary total for each customer listing the totals for the customer and an average age of their outstanding invoices. The totals only option shows just that summary total.

In v2.00 we had an issue in that the summary was showing the wrong value (62) and that was fixed in v2.01.

We also had a bug report from another customer. They feel that the values in the two reports should agree and show the average age of the outstanding invoice for the customer. And that was also changed in v2.01.

So they feel that the report should show the average age of the outstanding invoices for that customer. Whilst you feel that it should show the age of the oldest outstanding invoice for that customer. And both of you feel that the way you want it to work is right - and the other way of doing it is wrong and a 'bug' in the program!

That's quite a dilemma for any software company to deal with... someone's not going to be happy.

Now I'm happy to have one of our developers give you a quick call, to find out a bit more about how you want to use it to see if there's a way we can accommodate both points of view.

Dave

Thanks for that.  Mentioning these issues to support always gets the response that they will pass on the comments to developers but they don't know when it will be fixed.

I am surprised that the other customer wuishes an average day basis.  After all the 'oldest' day basis has existed for many years.

But are we talking about the same issue?  In 2.1.2 there is an average payment days figure.  Surely to have this in 'average' format, and also to have 2.4.2 option 11 ticked, also yield an 'average' value is too much weighted toward 'average' and leaves no way of listing an actual vale in 2.4.2

I would submit this to the other subscriber - I would even take on talking to him/her to discuss this.

If one of your developers can help me in any way, that would be great.

Thanks

Jack

Do agree with change in the quality and cost of the support!

Even after submitting the problem and backup data as requested as by the call centre, Only afterwards we were asked to fill up data service form,  we have Tass cover Plus (=standard) service, whilst no idea what essential service means. However no active help or call backs or corrections from the centre since.

After several calls that we made, correction in one company accounts was achieved by more helpful support person. However more problems where still within the data else were.

First Support person did mention that data correction service though it is free, only if you are covered. they cannot assure that additional costs will not be applicable. (Only On the form it is mentioned that if data needs to be corrected, free for essential or Plus=standard service 3-5days, other wise the costs ranges from £150express  whichapplies even for plus or essential and £600 for data correction if you have no cover)

These are additional to Yearly service cover costs ranging £660-750

Whilst by the other support personal instead of the software stability, the local network was blamed. Could only strees that our IT person does not agree with them.

In the end we were left to our own to call back many times and try to solve the problem. Software upgrade to version 3.01 did not solve either, each time we found the problem still remains even with following instructions from the support team and we still have no final perfect solution. With data errors of repeated posting numbers we remain quite worried now as we have been asked to keep these errors as it is!!! More than Ten years of use, seems may come to end soon!