Tagging help

Having thought I was ready for online filing as I use PTP, I now have a client that is an Association (members club) which is chargeable to CT and so has to file CT returns. I use VT cashbook for the accounts as they only need basic info but how do I get the accounts in the right format? The free HMRC software looks like it applies to companies.

Any recommendations on tagging software or a solution? It's only this one client that is a problem so I don't want to spend loads.

Thanks

Pip 

Comments

Charities and clubs exempt from filing xbrl

George Pearce | | Permalink

Doesn't ixbrl filing apply solely to companies?  I think clubs and charities still file ct600 and accounts in the good old simple way!

 

 

daveforbes's picture

Does it definately need to be iXBRL ?

daveforbes | | Permalink

Take a look at

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/ct-returns-format-accs.pdf

Unincorporated members clubs can still attach accounts as pdf.

I know how to do this in our software, but you will have to talk to your vendor to find how to do this.

David Forbes

www.forbes.co.uk

Non standard Ltd Companies iXBRL accounts

ixbrl-assist | | Permalink

If your client is an unincorporated club or association then you are able to file the accounts in PDF at present. However if your client is incorporated under the Friendly and Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1968 or Friendly Societies Act 1992 you will be required to use the UKGAAP taxonomy tagging requirements.

It is not just the case that you can adjust your standard layout for limited company accounts to fit say a club or association. Other factors come into effect when producing the iXBRL file.

Within any iXBRL file there is a context entity scheme identifier which for standard limited companies registered under companies act is www.companieshouse.gov.uk followed by the Companies House registration number. For those other entities described above it will need to be https://mutuals.fsa.gov.uk/ followed by the registration number.

There are a number of different scheme identifiers depending on which organisation the client is registered with, all of which can be found here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/ct-online/file-return/xbrl-tagging.pdf.

One thing to check with your software provider is that if your client is registered under these acts that the software you use is able to process the registration number correctly.

Back to your original question of help with creating an iXBRL file for clients who are not standard limited companies or which your software does not cater for.  We specialise in assisting practices with iXBRL compliance and offer a very cost effective solution for conversions if you are struggling with any ‘non-standard’ set of accounts. Whether it is a one off conversion or for a number of clients.

Stewart Hardy

Hypercube Consultancy

www.ixbrl-assist.co.uk

daveforbes's picture

@Stewart Hardy

daveforbes | | Permalink

Have you successfully transmitted iXBRL accounts for non-companies act entities ?

It would be great to hear your feedback.

What approach have you taken to the lack of a directors report ?

David Forbes

No directors report

Exector | | Permalink

We have been struggling with this problem fpr a number of cases- eg UK branches of overseas companies. Can't create the iXBRL file as tagging software identifies dir/sec & date of signing as mandatory tags- think we have found the answer in the XBRL UK Ltd review of UK Detailed Tagging Information review of May 2011:

"6.10
Accounts
without a
directors report
When tagging accounts which do not have a Directors’ Report, such as
branch accounts, preparers should tag the person approving the accounts
as ‘Director signing report’, even if the person concerned is not a director.
The same person should be tagged with the tags in GAAP and IFRS
related to accounts approval. Their name should be tagged as if they were
a director. This is solely for the purpose of recording approval and is to
meet iXBRL validation requirements on the government gateway.
HMRC has stated that it accepts those giving approval to such accounts
may not be directors, despite the tagging concerned, and that this tagging
will not cause it to treat the person as a director. Preparers should not
have qualms about tagging in this way."

 

HTH

daveforbes's picture

@MGroup

daveforbes | | Permalink

I had seen that. I do have qualms about it ! (as do some of the other vendors).

No Dir report

Exector | | Permalink

Well on the basis that we are at present just going through all this rigamrole for the purposes of HMRC, if the XBRL Ltd report is accurate that HMRC are aware of this "work around" to meet the iXBRL validation requirement, I am content to use it.  HMRC themselves don't exactly make the position crystal clear in this area,  my attempts to get some clarification from them  just generates the mantra that in most cases iXBRL tagging is required even with entities not incorporated under the Companies Act. I quote from their reply:

"Which accounts are required in iXBRL format

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false
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false

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X-NONE

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The accounts sent with your return need to be in iXBRL format if they are required to

be prepared under any of the following legislation:

 Individual accounts required to be prepared under Chapter 4 of Part 15 of

the Companies Act 2006. 

 Building Societies Act 1986. 

 Friendly and Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1968. 

 Friendly Societies Act 1992. 

 Insurance Accounts Directive (Miscellaneous Insurance Undertakings)

Regulations 2008.

In addition, overseas companies resident in the UK must deliver the accounts

required by a notice to deliver a return in iXBRL. Also a company not resident in the

UK, but carrying on a trade in the UK through a permanent establishment, branch or

agency in the UK must deliver any trading and profit and loss account and any

balance sheet of the UK establishment, branch or agency required as part of its

return in iXBRL format.

In other circumstances, accounts can be sent as either iXBRL or PDF files"

Their guidance in  CT online filing -Commonly asked questons is as follows:

"If the iXBRL accounts file does not include a Directors' Report, will HMRC reject my return?  Answer: No. The software used to prepare the iXBRL file will ensure the necessary validation tags associated with the Directors' Report are included within the iXBRL file. If the software does not do this automatically (ours doesn't!), contact your software supplier for advice." So they seem to expect the tagging software to have a solution in these circumstances!

In the final analysis, I guess there is always the option of filing a pdf file where not possible to attach an iXBRL tagged one, but that does run in the face of seeming HMRC iXBRL filing expectation in most circumstances. 

I just find it incredible that we are faced with an effective mandatory iXBRL filing regime in place whilst such issues  remain to be properly resolved!

 PS Sorry about the extraneous formatting  lines in my HMRC quote- don't appear on my edit screen, so not sure how to remove them

daveforbes's picture

Directors report

daveforbes | | Permalink

It irks me that you have to tag the name of the officer signing the directors report with a tag called DirectorSigningReport when they are sometimes the company secretary, but to tag an "imaginary" directors report with the name of the person signing the accounts  makes me feel uncomfortable.

It is unfortunate that with only about a dozen mandatory tags that 2 of them are wrong !

p.s. to get rid of the extraneous formatting copy and paste first to notepad and then from notepad to Aweb.

Tagging and clubs

pipper01 | | Permalink

Thanks everyone. It's not registered under FSA so I'll be filing pdfs.

I do have another club that is FSA registered so when that's due, I'll contact you Stewart.

Thanks again for your help.

 

daveforbes's picture

Trade unions

daveforbes | | Permalink

Accounts in accordance with "The Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. "

pdf or ixbrl ? anyone know ?

daveforbes's picture

Trade union

daveforbes | | Permalink

... or possibly not even corporation tax !

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