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I am willing to take the chance on Brexit. I am a hardcore tory voter . In fact I donoted thousands to their campaign and actively campaigned door to door for many of the London and home county MPs this last election .
I signed that now infamous 5000 small business document against against ed milliband and spoke on radio about it .
Then Cameron turns around and stabs small business in the back .
No one can truly believe a word he says about anything at all.
This will be a vote against Cameron as much as for Brexit.
I just want to see the back of him and a new conservative leader , who really is a conservative and genuinely someone who supports small business not just in word but indeed
I am voting Brexit
With no disrespect to hardcore Tories, a decision to leave the EU should not be based on political gamesmanship. Economics and practicality show beyond reasonable doubt that a divorce after 40 years will be as financially damaging in this case as it would in a marriage breakdown. It is our children and our grandchildren whose wellbeing will suffer. We owe it to them not to sacrifice their future for short-sighted political considerations.
@Awebbie
The EU is defunct and past it's sell by date. It only has a political agenda. The immigration and Greece crisis shows what they are not capable of.
Have some faith in our own ability to prosper. I dispute your reasoning that economically we would be worse off. Once the shackles are thrown off just watch the enthusiasm of our youth take on the world.
@Awebbie
The EU is defunct and past it's sell by date. It only has a political agenda. The immigration and Greece crisis shows what they are not capable of.
Have some faith in our own ability to prosper. I dispute your reasoning that economically we would be worse off. Once the shackles are thrown off just watch the enthusiasm of our youth take on the world.
Aren't our youth already taking on the world from within the EU. Digital really knows no borders and that is where most of our youth are playing. Unfortunately for me Brexit campaigners can't provide any certainty.
The choices in this referendum are dire, vote remain and you're voting for something that is broken and you are hoping it can be fixed, vote leave and you are basically betting on red, when black or green are more likely to come up and not voting is just sticking your head in the sand.
So far Brexit have spent all of the money we won't send to the EU on the NHS, what about Research and Development which is hugely funded by the money coming back from the EU, what about Regional Development that is heavily funded by EU Money. Yes it's a lot of money that we pay to them and we don't see it all come back, but that is more than made up for in trade.
If you think that we can subsidise our Steel or other selected industries more by being outside of the EU, don't be surprised if they slap huge tariffs on the outputs from those industries when supported companies try and trade with the EU, because we would have made them more competitive and the EU would level the playing field.
I don't agree with state subsidies, the more I read the more I feel why shackle engineering industries with over-priced raw materials, let them buy at true market price and thus create more jobs, profit and ultimately tax.
The effect of propping up unsustainable business is inversely exponential, by propping up British Steel by tariffs you risk dragging down thousands of engineering businesses.
johnjenkins wrote:
@Awebbie
The EU is defunct and past it's sell by date. It only has a political agenda. The immigration and Greece crisis shows what they are not capable of.
Have some faith in our own ability to prosper. I dispute your reasoning that economically we would be worse off. Once the shackles are thrown off just watch the enthusiasm of our youth take on the world.Aren't our youth already taking on the world from within the EU. Digital really knows no borders and that is where most of our youth are playing. Unfortunately for me Brexit campaigners can't provide any certainty.
The choices in this referendum are dire, vote remain and you're voting for something that is broken and you are hoping it can be fixed, vote leave and you are basically betting on red, when black or green are more likely to come up and not voting is just sticking your head in the sand.
So far Brexit have spent all of the money we won't send to the EU on the NHS, what about Research and Development which is hugely funded by the money coming back from the EU, what about Regional Development that is heavily funded by EU Money. Yes it's a lot of money that we pay to them and we don't see it all come back, but that is more than made up for in trade.
If you think that we can subsidise our Steel or other selected industries more by being outside of the EU, don't be surprised if they slap huge tariffs on the outputs from those industries when supported companies try and trade with the EU, because we would have made them more competitive and the EU would level the playing field.
I would rather be broke and alive than be 'rich'and dead when all the Muslim terrorists stream in from the other EU nations and we all live under Sharia Law or be killed
I'm voting to remain. But I detest psuedo-arguments like the one you advance 'think of the children'. It's not justified.
Your argument is that because our parents made a decision 4 decades ago we should put up with its consequences for ever more at any cost.
Those considering Brexit are understandably concerned about sovereignty - a truly immense issue not the trivial "short-sighted political consideration" you claim. Their consideration deserve respect.
Stop impuning the intentions of the others and instead make the positive case for staying in the EU.
I agree that the case in or out should be a positive one, but the out campaign has been devoid of any economic argument that stands up to fact checking. As for Sovereignty, which Brexit campaigner mentions the veto, or that the UK's elected government led by Margaret Thatcher was especially important and involved in creating the single market.
it seems rather than spending money in more doctors Cameron's cronies are spending money trolling forums and telling us , like 'Silas Marner' that the world out there is too frightening and that we should opt for the security of a world where global corporations and academic elitists not to mention political hacks and wannabes rule our life's for ever more while our middle class and their children's aspirations are crushed .
Thing is it was an arranged marriage based on lies and deception, the promised dowry never arrived!
Also, never stay in a marriage for the sake of the kids, it does them more damage than a clean break if the relationship has broken down.
UK is Helen Archer to the coercive control of EC's Rob Titchener, time do do a Helen and reach for the carving knife!
Yep me tooooo. Cameron's crap has really shown him up for what he is since the coalition bailed him out. Never mind Boris looking to number 10. DC is looking for a cushy number in the EU.
The tax situation in this country will not change until we get a PM that realises it's the small business that is the backbone of this country.
Hmmm...I thought us accountants could see past the political positioning of the "players", and look for facts and rationally make a decision based on empirical evidence.
In 2012, the EU received the Nobel Peace Prize for having "contributed to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy, and human rights in Europe."
Seems so much of the referendum debate is about petty short term issues or personality politics. I am voting to remain, because international cooperation is much more important than tax changes. Brexit means turning back the clock on all sorts of levels.
OK, we have a few misconceptions that need addressing.
the leavers haven't said they will spend the extra money on the NHS. What they and Boris confirmed last night that the money would be prioritised. there is no economic case for staying or leaving. Although just look at the state of the EU. Peace has been kept not through the EU but the UN and other peacekeeping organisations. A big contribution was the breakup of the USSR. Now I wonder what happened there?
As for our youth. How many can't get a job, how many still live with parents, how many have debts of £50k when they leave Uni. etc. etc.
Agreed, I'm out, I vote for self-determination, if the economy takes a short term dip so what, it might anyway, if anyone knew we would never have boom and bust.
Its all guess work, scaremongering and uncertainty. It was originally when we joined the previous format and it is still today. Nobody really knows, 90% of the debating is just "flannel" and playground victimising.
Even Mr "WMD" himself, Blair expects all to heel after the drivel he dished up and then handed over to scapegoat Brown.
The EU is riddled with sleeze and snouts in troughs. It is only a real benefit to the likes of Greece.
The EU needs us more than we need them, and yes, I expect turmoil soon after if Brexit succeeds and much financial and business punishment from EU states that disapprove but, so what, it will blow over. It has not been a cushy prosperous time for all anyway. Our leaders need to take a much closer look at real society not just their "top table."
The real fear from Brussels is that if the UK leave others will follow.
Just wait until Turkey joins, Merkhel and co will be whining even more.
We coped before the EEC was born and we will after.
I forsee a slim remain victory, and all this will be such a close call for Cameron he will be the most relieved person on earth, particularly after promising the vote he now almost certainly regrets. But the worse bit will be that Cameron and co will dine out on the success for ever!!
I am partly of French heritage ( my dad) , my ex wife is full blown French partly of Jewish heritage , my daughter though born in uk only holds a French passport .
And I am still voting LEAVE
What meekly did was unforgivable
The deception of Cameron is shocking
Let's defeat project fear
Getting back to the tax aspect.
An emergency budget???????? What's that all about?
Osborne and Darling, what a win double that pair.
I shudder to think what we gonna get from the remainers in the run up to 23rd.
I believe Osborne will "weigh in" and punish UK citizens on the back of his negative claims of Brexit, and as a knock on effect of some EU members imposing financial punishment on us.
Hitting us is his way of demonstrating that Brexit is wrong. A "told you so" moment.
That should pay an end to his political career, Camerons is wavering anyway.
Buckle down, it will be a rollercoater ride if Brexit win. There will be issues, even if remain win, purely because it will be very close and uncomfortable for Westminster.
Just my opinion!
added that the UK tax system would not change overnight.
To right it takes tax legalisation around 3 readings in the commons and 3 in the house of lords, nothing is going to change significantly for at least 6 years.