Making tax digital: The known unknowns

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Rebecca Cave attended a Making Tax Digital event hosted by HMRC, and reports on what was discussed. 

The move towards quarterly reporting has started, but there will be many known and unknown issues to be resolved along the way. A major unknown is whether quarterly tax payments will follow on from quarterly reporting. This matter has not been decided either way by government ministers, or so we were told by HMRC.

The purpose of these early Making Tax Digital events appears to be to educate advisers about quarterly reporting, and to test reactions to the idea of quarterly payments. It was emphasised that quarterly reporting is not about securing a cash flow advantage for the government [much laughter from the audience]. The purpose of quarterly reporting is to modernise the tax administration system and to encourage taxpayers to interact with HMRC on a more current basis.    

A further more formal consultation on Making Tax Digital will follow from April 2016 onwards, which will consist of series of events held around the country. HMRC wants to reach out to smaller businesses and their advisers in those events.     

Who will report?

All businesses will be required to report at least quarterly to HMRC, this is not up for negotiation. Individuals with secondary sources of income (non-PAYE) of £10,000 or more will also be within scope of quarterly reporting. When questioned on how this £10,000 was arrived at, the answer appeared to be “taxable income”. So a landlord with rental income of £1,000 per month gross, and interest payments of £500, will be brought into quarterly reporting as the interest will not be tax deductible, as the their taxable secondary income will be £12,000 per year from 2020.  

When will it start?

The timetable for bringing taxpayers into quarterly reporting is expected to be:

For accounting periods or tax years starting after: Type of business:
5 April 2018 Businesses under VAT registration threshold and individuals with secondary income of more than £10,000
5 April 2019 VAT registered businesses
1 April 2020 Companies

This approach; starting with the smallest and least sophisticated businesses, was challenged by the accountants present as being the wrong way round. HMRC was urged to start quarterly reporting for businesses which have the greatest capability to cope i.e. large companies with in-house tax departments.

What will be reported?

What type of data will be reported quarterly: A summary of receipts and payments or the detail of every single business transaction? – HMRC doesn’t know; as no decision has been made. This response calls into question how HMRC can be negotiating with software providers (see below) as this fundamental point has not been decided.

HMRC believes that businesses won’t have to hire tax professional to do quarterly updates. This implies that all business data items will be submitted (every invoice issued and receipt for expenses), with no analysis of whether the items submitted are tax deductible or not. The HMRC mantra is: “reporting to HMRC closer to real time will reduce errors”. Exactly how more frequent reporting will reduce errors was not demonstrated.

Tax agents’ involvement  

Every business will have access to an HMRC digital tax account from April 2016. Tax agents will be able to manage their clients’ digital accounts. Work to give tax agents access to those accounts is being synchronised with Agent Online Self-Serve (AOSS).

At present AOSS is being piloted with tax agents who have no more than 200 clients. HMRC could not say when AOSS will be available to all tax agents, as currently that programme appears to be running behind its predicted schedule.

It was not clear when tax agents will be given access to clients’ digital tax accounts, or even that all tax agents would be given access from the same date. The accountants asked for access to clients’ digital tax accounts from April 2017, when the first businesses are expected to start trailing quarterly reporting.

Software

HMRC is consulting with commercial software providers to provide free software for smaller businesses and for those with less complex tax affairs. There is no definition of “smaller” or “less complex” in this context as yet.

The HMRC vision is that the software will flag-up data items which are potentially wrong and HMRC will send a personalised message to taxpayer as guidance.

Ona accountant asked: What research has HMRC had done as to the types of software already used to record business transactions? It was emphasised that many businesses used spreadsheets, or bespoke software, as there is no commercial software available for their particular form of business, e.g. financial advisers.  

Penalties

Will penalties be imposed for late quarterly reporting or for inaccurate reports, or both?

HMRC doesn’t know the answer to this, other than; “there will be a light touch approach.”  

VAT

Will the flat rate scheme for small businesses be abolished, and if not, how will it tie into quarterly reporting? – No decision has been made on this.

CIS repayments

The consultation paper on simpler payments  promised that tax repayments would be obtained quicker. This implied that off-sets of tax owning and tax deducted such as CIS tax would be made. As CIS repayments are currently delayed for months due to security issues, how are those issues going to be over-come? HMRC had no answer on this.

Conclusion

HMRC acknowledged that Making Tax Digital will be as fundamental an alteration to tax administration as the change to self assessment. For those of us who worked through the move to SA, which also involved a change from the prior year basis to current year basis for the self-employed, the move to digital tax accounts and quarterly reporting appears to be indecently rushed.

If you have comments about the Making Tax Digital programme you can send them to HMRC on this address: [email protected].

Replies

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By Duhamel
09th Feb 2016 10:50

Anyone else get the feeling we are being taken for fools?

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Does this even have a point?

So we still don't know:

1. What use will be made of the data.

2. What the data required will be

3. At what point (if any) accountants will be cleaning up the mess and substituting proper data for the garbage previously entered

All we know is there will be "some data" supplied quarterly. 

 

How the hell can there be a project of this magnitude when so much is unknown?

 

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By Duhamel
09th Feb 2016 11:09

And you believe them?

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

So we still don't know:

1. What use will be made of the data.

2. What the data required will be

3. At what point (if any) accountants will be cleaning up the mess and substituting proper data for the garbage previously entered

All we know is there will be "some data" supplied quarterly. 

 

How the hell can there be a project of this magnitude when so much is unknown?

 

I don't believe HMRC when they say these things haven't been decided. The decisions have clearly been made, just not released yet.

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09th Feb 2016 11:13

Scary

So, HMRC response appears to be "We know we want to do this, but we haven't a <expletive> clue how to do it.

For something that's just over two years away there were a lot of don't knows.

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@Duhamal, yes I do actually believe them.

I do believe a minister can come up with a pet project with no clear aims other than it seems like the sort of thing he would like to be known for implementing, and then the 'detail' is left to the civil servants.  

No consultation, no cost-benefit analysis, no real clue. 

The same has happened with pensions, the order from on high which makes some sense for larger business, but when followed into tiny ones is utterly absurd. 

 

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09th Feb 2016 11:24

Working Together

This was discussed in some depth at our Working Together Group meeting yesterday.  (So at least HMRC are trying to communicate with agents). 

The one stop shop tax account certainly feels like a step in the right direction but there seems to be some real unanswered issues with what was going to be reported on the quarterly returns, in particular where you have a more complex smaller business, for example a property developer with no sales in a period according to the unsophisticated bookkeeping, which is only normally tidied properly at the year end. 

If the ultimate aim is to collect tax payments more quickly, couldn't quarterly POAs be brought in or with slight acceleration in due dates, phased in over a period. 

The advice from our WTG HMRC chap is to make sure you are feeding back through your professional bodies for all of the consultation aspects.  

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17th Feb 2016 14:25

Working Together?

accountantccole wrote:

This was discussed in some depth at our Working Together Group meeting yesterday. 

I thought regional WT ceased last year. What region are you and how is it that you are still meeting?

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13th Mar 2016 17:25

Working Together ?

kevinringer wrote:

accountantccole wrote:

This was discussed in some depth at our Working Together Group meeting yesterday. 

I thought regional WT ceased last year. What region are you and how is it that you are still meeting?

They were never Working Together.  There were some Telling You What We're Going to Impose On You meetings.

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By Locutus
09th Feb 2016 11:37

I just don't understand the big picture
We know for certain: -

1. It will cost HMRC billions of pounds to re-engineer their systems to deal with this and Digital Tax Accounts;
2. It will inconvenience taxpayers significantly (some hardly at all, others hugely) which will inevitably involve most having to pay higher accountancy fees to report exactly the same amount of tax that they do under the existing system;
3. HMRC will be overwhelmed by a MASSIVE amount of data (much of which will be only partially accurate) that they can't possibly use, especially as staff numbers will be cut drastically in the future.

If the hidden agenda is indeed to accelerate tax payments, then this can be done at the stroke of a pen, by making businesses of any size make monthly payments on account. If the hidden agenda is to link it in with Universal Credit then there has to be a better way than this.

I challenge HMRC to implement this new system with just 100 businesses selected at random and see the chaos that is likely to follow.

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09th Feb 2016 16:28

There is only one

reason that HMRC are doing this. From quarterly figures it's a simple step to monthly figures linked to RTI, tax to be paid monthly by 19th of the month. So The self-employed are effectively on PAYE.

I cannot see any other reason for this crap

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@JJ, this is possible, but this involves considerably more long term planning than our political 'elite' are generally capable of.  They are in for the short haul only. 

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09th Feb 2016 17:29

OK Please, please , pretty please

with knobs on tell me why HMRC would want quarterly figures that comprises Income, expenditure, difference. What possible information could they glean from this. Exactly, none. As for making it easier with a flick of a button. I really don't APPreciate or APProve.

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09th Feb 2016 17:43

Here's a good one

"interacting with HMRC on a current basis". Are we sure April 1st hasn't come early this year.

You put your quarterly figures in, you take your quarterly figures out. In out, in out. Adjusting them whilst drinking wine. You do the hocus pocus and then send them in. That's what it's all about.

Oh what a silly system, Oh what a stupid way of working, Oh what a waste of money. Homer's gone, who's next, tax tax tax. 

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09th Feb 2016 17:54

Useful article -thanks!

But what I really want to know is where is this magical computerised software that even microbusinesses and landlords can afford... where the bank feeds never glitch ... where no one ever needs to make period end adjustments or journals or even input supplier invoices?

I honestly don't mind another expensive and time consuming reboot. After all, what's one more after so many? But the mixture of incompetence and arrogance is genuinely frightening.

 

 

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By CJaneH
10th Feb 2016 11:54

The people devising this must all be non accountants on salaries.

 

Where in all of this is:

Debtors

Creditors

Prepayments

Accruals

Stock

Work in progress

Bad Debts

Capital allowances

Balancing Charges

 

With out the above all results rubbish

 

 

 

 

 

 

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By Robbo
10th Feb 2016 12:05

Seems to me HMRC have two reasons for the move:

1 collect more tax quicker

2 To shut out advisors to make their job easier ie avoid scrutiny of themselves

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What do HMRC think we do?

taxwriter wrote:

HMRC believes that businesses won’t have to hire tax professional to do quarterly updates. This implies that all business data items will be submitted (every invoice issued and receipt for expenses), with no analysis of whether the items submitted are tax deductible or not.

If HMRC truly believes that a direct 'push' of raw bookkeeping data to them is sufficient for a business to accurately report its tax obligations, then HMRC clearly has no understanding of what we do. Bookkeeping does not equal accounting and accounting does not equal tax compliance.

If HMRC want access to the raw bookkeeping entries for the purpose of making random, ad hoc and unannounced enquiries into what has been formally reported on tax returns, then that at least makes some (dystopian, Orwellian) sense. But please, Ms Homer (and your yet to be appointed successor), do not think that this will replace the need for a business to appoint a qualified accountant for the purpose of accurately turning the bookkeeping entries into a set of accounts and tax returns.

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10th Feb 2016 12:28

I have looked at this

from a practical and serious point of view and the non negotiable quarterly accounts based on 3 lines (I presume loan repayments, which include interest and capital should be included) doesn't have a purpose. It certainly doesn't save time or reduce errors (there won't be time - 7 days - to look for errors for all your clients). It will only cause mayhem and distant tax payer and HMRC even more. Nobody wants it because simply there is no benefit to anyone even HMRC. So there has to be a hidden agenda (I am assuming HMRC haven't completely lost the plot).

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10th Feb 2016 12:33

QUARTELY REPORTING

Asking businsses to do four tax returns a year is a massive increase in the compliance burden. And a huge additional burden on HMRC in looking at all this data. Are ministers not aware of this?

What will the penalty regime be for incorrect quarterly returns?

The only winners in this are software providers and accountancy firms. I can see no upside which is not outweighed by the downsides.

If the Government's agenda is faster tax paymenrs, be honest and say so and just accelerate poa dates

 

 

 

 

 

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10th Feb 2016 12:35

So start date 5th April 2018

No need for tax return at 5th April 2019. So doesn't have to be in by 31st Jan 2020. Assuming HMRC have all PAYE, pension, dividend etc. information (sent to them through RTI or some APP) we then don't have anytime to collate client information to calculate tax liability.

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10th Feb 2016 12:48

Individuals with secondary income of more than £10,000?

What is their definition of secondary income?

Do they mean pensions?

Savings income?

Or just income that is not taxed at source?

As these proposals stand, there is likely to be a huge increase in ordinary taxpayers who will be compelled to use 3-monthly reporting.

 

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10th Feb 2016 12:50

What to do between now and then...

With so many unknowns I only have one plan of action for 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 and that is to wake clients up to what is about to arrive.

What will by 2018 have been, for the long-standing clients who remember pre-self assessment, an annual target and habit of aiming for January will take a lot of encouragement with this.

The only way to awaken them is to scare them sooner than later.

I dread to think how that first quarter will pan out otherwise.

If HMRC think that we all want our Easter break and Summer holidays trashed in the same way that Christmas has become "the pre-January event", then I think they'll have another thing coming.

The stress we all face to encourage our clients to comply is simply not appreciated. We do SO much to make self assessment work - they just have no idea do they!?!?

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By 90517Do
10th Feb 2016 12:52

Maybe we will all get knighthoods as well!!!!

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10th Feb 2016 12:52

HMRC

Did the speakers actually believe all this or were they just saying what they were told to say ?

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10th Feb 2016 12:57

HMRC software will spot potential errors?

Really? And  then they will email the taxpayer with guidance? This is of course prompted by someone with no actual knowledge of the business in question. Er well, nor sure that will work. I await developments with interest.

 

 

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10th Feb 2016 13:03

Bunch of Dreamers

They seem to think that all taxpayers are capable of keeping all their records on some form of software. Hence their note on asking for a simplified system from the software companies so that everyone will be 'able to report quarterly.

WAKE UP HMRC YOU ARE DREAMING

So Joe Bloggs the builder is now expected to be computer savvy and input all his expenses and income on some shiny system designed by people who have no clue about how real life works, and expected to get it right, and do it quarterly.

Do the people who plan these things have any clue what it's like to run your own business, especially a small one?

And bringing it in for the smallest first whilst agents might not even have access to the systems?

How stupid can you be?

Sorry, but this is a terrible idea being driven by people with no clue who think everyone is computer literate and wants to use the internet and electronics for everything.

They should impose a mandatory one year working in a small practice (for free, as no doubt their work would be woeful) on all those involved in coming up with this, then they can go back and think of things that might work.

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10th Feb 2016 13:04

Dates?

1. Will tax quarter dates be matched with VAT quarter dates? If not we will be looking at 8 reports per year for many.

2. Are trusts and estates intended to be in this regime?

3. What happens when a property owning individual dies and there is a significant delay before probate is granted. Who do they think they can chase?

And this is going live in 26 months from now? 

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10th Feb 2016 13:05

Armed resistance

Would everyone here who has taken the trouble to comment please do so again but send your comment and the lead article to your MP.

I have contacted mine and he passed in on to David Gauke, from whom I received a personalised response.  Of course It was full of the usual Orwellian doublespeak we have become used to hearing.

Nothing will make any difference unless you communicate your concerns to someone who can do something. Get on the case!

Armed?  We're the ones who know what it takes for clients to comply now and who is likely to bear the responsibility for clients to comply with whatever system this ends up as.

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10th Feb 2016 14:16

At least you received a reply from your MP. Mine didn't feel the need to bother.

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10th Feb 2016 13:21

Imagine this on Dragons Den...

there'd be plenty of incredulous shouting at TVs if this was a 'real' business making such proposals with no idea how to implement them or for what purpose.

 

I'm pretty sure we're being taken for fools, but there's nothing we can do about it. I work in business and it's a worry enough how I will deal with the few companies and handful of partnerships that I manage. I can't imagine how this will affect accountants in practice.

 

The most ridiculous part to me is that it will be individuals and very small businesses enlisted first! 

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10th Feb 2016 13:24

Consultation

I was at a meeting on Nottingham on Friday which went pretty much the same way except - it is all expected to be driven by phone apps, maybe like receipt bank or some such - the software providers will no doubt be able to programme in decisions about tax deductions (?) - it is definitely not a quarterly tax return, just a summary of income, expenditure and tax liability each quarter - there won't be an annual reconciliation because 'the tax return is dead'. I didn't pick up that it was definitely going to happen. Many of the accountants there thought it was a good thing for HMRC to severely penalise late returns (but I couldn't tell if they were joking). This is a public consultation to test out their initial ideas and I think we should all be feeding back the view that it is a stupid one. 

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10th Feb 2016 13:26

Those who can .......

 

................. DO!

Those who cannot ................... become politicians.

And then they come up with crazy ideas for civil servants to put in place.

Look at those in power. What actual jobs have they had in the real commercial or business world? How many MP's have used their hands to make things? How many have a vast accumulation of personal experience and knowledge gained from working in the real world?

Let's hope the merry go-round at government level will result in this idea being scrapped by a more enlightened successor.

Or we will all end up joining them in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

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10th Feb 2016 13:38

Overpayment on PAYE account

This is the sort of useless guidance being sent out at the moment.  The clients in question are in CIS and are having deductions made that, of course, create an apparent overpayment of PAYE.

The HMRC Guidance letter, basically accuses these clients, who have no say in the matter, of overpaying their PAYE!  No one at HMRC has had the wit from the information they already hold, to segregate PAYE and CIS balances, so these letters are avoided, where a client is in CIS.

This sort of design nonsense exists at the moment, so the introduction of quarterly tax accounts is way outside their intellectual capabilities.  I look forward to the chaos that ensues.

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By cwatkin
10th Feb 2016 13:35

Quarterly reporting
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that HMRC's proposals are completely impractical and unworkable. In short the proposals are complete bollocks which havent been properly thought through and without regard to the potential cost and inconvenience to taxpayers at large.
Instead of pandering to HMRC the professional bodies and all tax professionals should cease all cooperation with HMRC on this and all other projects until HMRC wake up and see sense. However it remains to be seen whether the professional bodies have the balls to do so.

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10th Feb 2016 14:58

Agree

cwatkin wrote:
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that HMRC's proposals are completely impractical and unworkable. In short the proposals are complete bollocks which havent been properly thought through and without regard to the potential cost and inconvenience to taxpayers at large. Instead of pandering to HMRC the professional bodies and all tax professionals should cease all cooperation with HMRC on this and all other projects until HMRC wake up and see sense. However it remains to be seen whether the professional bodies have the balls to do so.

Hear hear, cwatkin.

 

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10th Feb 2016 13:37

The Little Britain Stance

I went to the HMRC 'consultation' on Monday which was very well attended (seven turned up of which two were accountants). The two from HMRC were very nice but not well informed. They had the HMRC hat on. We were told that this is being implemented regardless and it was to prevent the annual surprise of a tax bill and allow tax payers to be better informed of their tax position. I gave a few scenarios of tax payers operating this on their own sitting beside this years Butterworth's Tax bibles and getting it perfectly correct. Thing like capital allowances, accruals, prepayments, stock and WIP, disallowed expenditure on entertaining and all the other boring stuff. The blank look explained all.  

As for penalties, HMRC later this year are looking at the entire penalty regime, which does not mean a lot.

They had no detail, no explanations and no reasoned argument.

With all the changes currently going on within HMRC they now want to too do this. The only real benefit is the acceleration in tax payments which will, for a very short period, improve the lending requirements of the government. 

 

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By janefg
10th Feb 2016 13:55

Annual accounts
Presumably the requirement for companies to report to HMRC on a quarterly basis will not do away with the need for annual accounts with accruals, prepayments and all the rest of the adjustments for Companies House and other users?

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10th Feb 2016 14:02

I am a retired individual with secondary income exceeding £10,000 from buy-to-let investments. I am also a non-executive director of one trading company and a significant shareholder in another about which I know a great deal. I wrote to my MP about this (he is in the Cabinet so he sits at the top table) and was fobbed off with a boilerplate letter which didn't answer any of my questions. I can think of the following outcomes:

1. The proposal is dropped - No chance

2. The proposal is delayed and sufficient work is done to give it a better chance of working - Unlikely that it will be delayed and for the reasons given above it still won't work for micro businesses who simply do not record their data continuously

3. The proposal is introduced more-or-less as currently drafted and at the intended times, and quite soon tax will become payable at the same time as the quarterly report is submitted. Here is what I think might happen:-

a) SMEs such as the ones I am a director and shareholder of will be able to cope by running  the quarterly report alongside their VAT return. I wonder whether the quarterly report could be combined with the VAT return - the description of the data seems prima facie to be the same.

b) Some people, like myself, will be able to comply because I am computer literate and I have the time. However if my experience of HMRC software is anything to go by I expect that whatever software I am given will probably "flag-up data items which are potentially wrong" and I will have to enter different figures in order to complete the exercise. I already have to do this with a return I do for a dormant company. Almost certainly the amount of tax I am charged will be wrong so I will appeal and I will do this every time it happens because I am like that.

c)Most micro businesses will be unable to comply themselves. The most profitable ones (Financial Advisers, Dentists, etc.) will pay an accountant to do it for them and will need to give their accountant access to view their bank accounts continuously so as to collect the data to comply with the 7 day deadline (actually I think the 7 day deadline is one thing that will be changed, probably to 30 days, because even HMRC are not so stupid as to think 7 days will work). Less profitable micro businesses will fold and the individuals will seek employment. Self-employment will gradually become a thing of the past. If you want a plumber you'll need to engage a large business who will inevitably be less good at it.

That's what I think will happen.

 

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10th Feb 2016 14:11

Clearly...

HMRC and Government, wish to move the goalposts and demand taxpayers "Report" on an R and P basis, whereas only a few years back they demanded WIP be taken into immediate account.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manua...

HMRC are increasingly falling over the own dashing feet and totally ignoring their own p-recepts, law and tenets.

Most businesses of any size cannot work on an R and P basis: such provides a series of false outputs when considering wrongful trading and solvency.

Thus we now suffer Government and an HMRC who have downsized most of their inhouse expertise and skills coming up with new wave concepts, ignoring the reality and history of their own dictums!

 

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By B.R.
10th Feb 2016 14:21

HMRC should sub-contract to Accountingweb.

I attended a Making Tax Digital consultation day in a major city last week. Six agents - yes, only six - including myself attended. At the end of the session I asked HMRC if they were disappointed with the turn out. They replied that invitations had been held until the end of January before being sent.This led me to enquire how each attendee had become aware of the event. Two of the six stated that they wouldn't be there if they hadn't learned of the consultation on the AccountingWEB site! A 33% communication success rate for AccountingWEB.

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10th Feb 2016 14:32

Data protection

Surely there are questions as to what use this data they want to collect will be put to.  Notwithstanding that "they" (shouldn't this be elected ministers rather than unelected civil servants?) have not apparently decided what data and what they are going to do with it, it does sound like there are data protection questions to answer.  My understanding is that they have right of access for an investigation, but no general right to collect and retain "all" business data.

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10th Feb 2016 14:51

payments on account on a quarterly basis is fine, provided thet income is received evenly and regularly throughout the year, but this does not happen in lots of cases, where the majority of income is received in a short period of time and expenditure could be incurred evenly throughout  a year, or maybe the majority could be incurred in a completely differnet period.

How will this fit in with cash flow? Will it mean large payments on account in onbe quarter, and refunds in another quarter? We all know how difficult it is to get refunds from HMRC!

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10th Feb 2016 14:55

Just stepping back from it...

Whats the point of the following 

 

A major unknown is whether quarterly tax payments will follow on from quarterly reporting. This matter has not been decided either way by government ministers, or so we were told by HMRC.

 

For buisnessess with a tax liability over £1,000 make two  6 monthly POA on accounts anyway, unsure where the gain to the Chancellor is.

 

 

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By Arm266
10th Feb 2016 15:17

System so easy all can do

What a lot of rubbish.  I know there are statistics that the majority of households own a computer, or similar, but what are the statistics on the proportion of the population who know how to use them?  Probably around 50%.  We have computers in our house but not all of us even know how to work on emails; no chance of such people filling in even a simplified tax return on line.  A lot of my clients come to me because they are not happy that they can even manage to maintain any accounts; most of my work is pulling together accounts from receipts and payments provided by them, often by post!

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10th Feb 2016 15:55

Beam me up!

After what can only be described as a particularly harsh January, we are now subjected to this.  HMRC's timing is second to none!  I still have clients who have yet to have their 2015 return done....Is it me or is this job getting harder?  I am seriously considering throwing the towel in and finding a less stressful job.  I should imagine I wont be the only one....well done HMRC

 

 

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10th Feb 2016 16:03

Tax change to year

I also believe HMRC do not know what is happening, they may know there will be some kind of penalty for quarterly returns but the detail is up in the air.

It does all sound confusing and far too ambitious, especially as agents do not even have access to the digital accounts as yet/on time; and so much is up in the air. And starting with smaller clients first is asking for trouble!

 

While we are at doing all these changes can we change the tax year to a calendar year so we are the same as just about every other country.!?

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10th Feb 2016 16:23

5th April 2018 implementation ?

It's almost as comical as Donald Trump's victory speech

 

 

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By norstar
10th Feb 2016 18:29

Like some kind of nightmare

It's like shovelling snow in a blizzard. One consultation comes out, it's mental and you tell them that, then another comes, then another then another.

Now this.

They're mental.

I won't go over what others have said except to say that the ACCA don't seem to be making much noise about this, or any other body that I see, so I will be writing to my MP and suggest others do likewise.

As has been covered before, quarterly payments on account would have addressed ALL of these issues. This quarterly reporting of raw data is frightening, invasive and a breach of privacy and can only be so that if HMRC decide to look at your records, it's all there already.

I cannot see how we can cope with this and in my opinion, many clients will move over to reporting themselves to save costs or because we haven't got the capacity to deal with it.

Think about it - this will in theory double everyone's workload, so either a) clients will take it on themselves, or b) practices will need to shed clients to cope.

Either way, HMRC are going to get a lot of crap, amateur data to block up their systems...

If I wasn't too young, I'd retire on hearing this.

Did I mention they're mental?!

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By norstar
10th Feb 2016 18:40

Plumber before Starbucks

So one more thought on this - "when will it start":

For accounting periods or tax years starting after:

Type of business:

5 April 2018

Businesses under VAT registration threshold and individuals with secondary income of more than £10,000

5 April 2019

VAT registered businesses

1 April 2020

Companies

 

So George the window cleaner faces this from 6/4/18, but Starbucks, Google etc don't have to until 1/4/20.

That seems fair.

For a moment I thought the accusations of George cosying up to Starbucks et al had some credibility...

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