Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.
AIA

Practitioner's Diary: A Budget for - who?

by
29th Apr 2009
Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.

Or should that be whom? Our West Country general practitioner is not impressed either way.

* * *
28 April - Just taken delivery of the firm's annual Budget brochures. Am I the only one who wonders if these are ever worth the money? It has always seemed to me that anyone interested in the Budget will get what they need on the day or the day after, especially with the Internet. I wonder how many people are actually going to read our guide.

I have had a better response this year from simply emailing a dozen key clients with a couple of highlights from the Budget that might be of particular relevance to them. They appreciated someone else sifting through all the detail and pointing out the bits that relate to them. I did it on the day of the speech and the following morning too, while it was still hot news. Frankly, this week I don't think many people are interested any more.

* * *
27 April - Thanks for the Addendum Stephen, it's obviously me being thick! I have logged in again using the client's online VAT filing credentials and I still can't see where to go to appoint an agent! When I have the time and inclination I'll have to phone the HMRC support line and get them to talk me through it.

My assistant has just passed me the latest VAT Notes which came with a client's recent VAT Return. I wasn't aware that from next year all new VAT registrations irrespective of turnover level all other and businesses turning over £100,000+ will have to file VAT returns online and pay their VAT by DD. Is this really going to happen, or are they assuming accountants and bookkeepers will be doing more of this in future? I don't see much evidence that businesses want to pay for it.

* * *
23 April - After reading the small print I'm not impressed. This sounds like a Budget from a Government that isn't bothered about getting re-elected. How can the Chancellor stand up and claim that the economy will start to recover later this year when everyone else disagrees? When his economic forecasts are blown out of the water where is is going to get the money from? Maybe he doesn't care.

Many of my clients down here in the sunny West Country are disappointed at the abolition of the furnished holiday property tax regime. The letting season in the UK is very short, it is virtually impossible to make a profit down here, so the tax reliefs made it a viable proposition. I predict the holiday letting business will be seriously hit by this.

Reading the Budget paper on Delivering a new relationship with business there's a worrying development on page 12, where it refers to "General Tax Practitioners (HMRC officers trained in direct, indirect tax and employer compliance) or teams
of experts (depending on the size of the business) carrying out a single integrated compliance check rather than separate checks for each regime."

Nice idea, but as a general practitioner with a tax bias I'm not sure I like the name.

Earlier on the report discusses the benefit of raising the threshold for 3-line accounts disclosure on SA returns to the VAT reg threshold. It says: "This change will deliver
administrative burden savings of an estimated £54 million per annum." Maybe for you, but there's no benefit to taxpayers, except the possible attraction of unwelcome enquiries - more often than not only aspect enquiries, which aren't covered by most professional fees insurance policies! We will continue to submit full, line by line, self employment information on SA returns for even the smallest traders - I can't see why anyone who has done the accounts worldn't.

* * *
22 April - I'm worried about the Chancellor. He says "... as the economy recovers and wages start to grow again, it is right that we take additional steps. I believe that it is fair that those who have gained the most should contribute more." They do anyway. That's a natural consequence of tax being a percentage of your income - the more you earn, the more you pay. Didn't he do percentages at school?

* * *
20 April - Budget this week. I have long ceased to try to predict what the Chancellor is planning to do. My one plea is just a simple one - if he has to change tax and VAT rates - and one assumes he is going to have to sooner or later, to balance the books - then can we PLEASE have rates that are easy to work out in your head. The No.1 Practitioner Rule of tax rates is a simple one - never a prime number. Rates like 19% and 23% were a nightmare! I know 19% VAT might be tempting next year, but 18% would be much easy all round. Yes, I know 20% would be even easier, but would the public stomach a 5% hike straight after Christmas? A good idea if Labour doesn't want to get re-elected ...

* * *
17 April - I'm going to persevere with this. I'll submit a VAT-only 64-8 for my client and see what happens. Presumably a new option will appearwhen I log on to the VAT for agents section of the HMRC site. It's a shame because online VAT registration works a treat, but of course that's just a one-off - what I really need is easy access to VAT return filing for clients - I live in hope!

PRACTITIONER TIP: Here's a handy tip I picked up at a recent seminar. If you're not VAT registered and want to use VAT online for your clients - forget it! The HMRC system currently only allows agents to register for this service if they themselves are VAT-registered. Illogical I know, but that's how some dork programmed the system originally and they can't change it immediately. They plan to change it somethime in the future, but in the meantime I'm afraid it's an exclusive club for VAT-Registered agents only.

* * *
14 April - Mike - I wish it was that simple! I'm pretty sure clients can't "through that system authorise you to do it" - but I may be wrong!

I have resorted to using Stephen's approach - get the client's own login details and submit the returns using them, rather than via our agent login.

* * *
10 April - It's no good, I think the HMRC system has defeated me. I have tried clicking on the link for "Authorising an agent", which then takes you to the taxpayer login. I logged in using the online user name and password that my client has provided - but there's nowhere to authorise an agent! In fact, a search on the HMRC website reveals that:

"At the moment you can't use the online agent authorisation service to get authorisation to act on behalf of your client for VAT. You'll have to ask your client to give their authority on form 64-8.

Once form 64-8 has been processed, we'll be able to deal with you direct on specific matters. But we'll carry on sending letters about VAT to your client.

However, you can register for the VAT Online for agents service. You'll then be able to send us your client's VAT returns online."

Well, that last sentence may be factually correct, but it ignores the hurdles and considerable time delay before you get to that position! What a rubbish system.

* * *
6 April - OK, first problem. Just how do you set up your HMR&C online agent's account to enable you to file clients' VAT Returns online? I like the online VAT registration system, but it beats me how you're meant to set clients up to file their returns. It looks like we either need to file 64-8s with the VAT section filled in, or try to get them to authorise us online. I'll persevere and let you know how I get on.

* * *
3 April - This month I'm determined to crack on with the various online services that are meant to be there to help practitioners. I'm going to try swapping my trusty loose-leaf books for an online reference service (if the tax publishers ever get their act together) and we're going to see if we can use every HMR&C online service they have to offer. I bet it's not half as easy as they make out.

* * *
Last month our West Country general practitioner coped with a deluge of tax correspondence, closed a tax enquiry and contemplated mobile technology - there's more in his March diary.

Tags:

Replies (7)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By User deleted
16th May 2009 21:51

Eureka
Stephen - had a bit of a Eureka moment then. I had another look at my client's online VAT and still couldn't work it out - but on re-reading your comment realised I was in the wrong place.

As you said in your post, you need to send the client to the (http://www.gateway.gov.uk) Government Gateway site, probably somewhere they never need to go, rather than to the HMRC website. There, under Manage Services as you quite rightly say, is a button to assign agents to each of the tax services you are enrolled for.

All I need to do now is find the firm's online details so I can fill this in!!

Thanks (0)
Stephen Quay
By squay
29th Apr 2009 10:56

Assigning Agents for VAT Returns
Having logged in to the government gateway as the client click on "manage services on LHS. A list of services the client has enrolled for are listed with links on RHS to assign and manage agents. Once New Vat Returns assigned, log out and log in using your agents log in. Client should then be listed in your agency list.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By nigelredhead
29th Apr 2009 09:45

RE: VAT Online Returns and DD Payment next year
These are draft changes to the regulations only at the moment and seem to require electronic payment rather than specifying DD. If approved will come into force from periods after 1/4/2010. Comments are to be made by 3/7/2009.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By mrkisnon
24th Apr 2009 12:50

Single Integrated Visits
Regarding the single integrated compliance visits, one was trialled with one of my clients and it did not work. The tax man wanted to look at books from about 18 months ago while the VAT man wanted the current stuff. So you may only have to get your books out once but it will be about 2 years worth and you are answering questions on circumstances in different periods. The two individuals concerned were not very keen on the idea.

Thanks (0)
Stephen Quay
By squay
21st Apr 2009 14:55

VAT online - Addendum
You may be a little confused or else I didn't make it clear for which I apologise. Once the client's gateway account has been activated by me and I've logged in to their account, I assign my agency to submit vat returns on their behalf. Then log out. The client then appears in my own agency list and I use my agency log in to handle their vat returns. No need to return the client's log in at all.


Then log in via my agency and set up their DD for them. Operating through your own agency makes it all above board and transparent. Only use the client's log in initially to assign your practice. That's the dodgy bit.

And yes I am vat registered. One of the few advantages to be able to submit vat returns for clients.

Thanks (0)
Stephen Quay
By squay
14th Apr 2009 18:12

VAT Online
Yes it is a bad system but all you have to do is set up the client's Gateway account for them. When they receive the activation code they give it to you and complete the loop. Then log in as them and assign your practice for the "new vat returns service" (instant access) and "change vat details" (requires another activation code).

I've done this for many of my vat clients and as long as they know what you're doing there shouldn't be problem. You can direct all HMRC notices to your email address and manage the vat for them.

If you stop acting for a client, just change the password and give it to the client. But first unassign your practice as agent and redirect the HMRC emails back to them.

The first thing to do once you have access is to set up their direct debit for them.

Data protection should not be a problem if you keep the client informed all the time. The system is bad because you have to "pretend" to be the client. This is appalling in this day and age.

Thanks (0)
By coolmanwithbeard
14th Apr 2009 12:08

VAT online
It's horrible - you have to get the client to register themselves for online VAT and then through that system authorise you to do it.

I moan to HMRC every time I get the opportunity but it doesn't help.

At one working together event they acknowledged how bad that was and suggested we don't use it till it changes - works for me - except that n0ow I have to put a stamp on VAT returns

M

Thanks (0)