Taxpayers win in RTI penalty appeals

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A string of decisions arising from the transition to real time information (RTI) have started to crop up at tribunal with two recent cases going in the taxpayer’s favour.

From just a handful of cases so far on the complications around making the transition over to RTI, the general trend is not much taxpayer joy. However there are a couple of examples which show there is hope.

In the first case, Hogg Joinery v HMRC, the taxpayer won on reasonable excuse based on HMRC delays in issuing penalty notices.

Hogg Joinery appealed HMRC’s decision to impose penalties of £400 for late submission of the Employer’s Annual Return for the year ending 5 April 2013. The return was due to be filed online by 19 May 2013 and was filed online that September.

The appellants said that the 2012/13 return and indeed those for the two earlier years were submitted online on time. They had two other businesses and their bookkeeper filed the returns for all three businesses at the same time and in the same way. 

According to the appeal...

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Robert Lovell
Managing Editor
AccountingWEB.co.uk
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19th May 2014 12:31

Unreasonable Penalties

I have nightmares worried about whether I have done everything necessary or will get hit with a 400 pound fine.

With RTI you dont get a simple email saying "all is in order you have done everything necessary to complete the tax year".  

400 pound is  a lot of money for a 10000 turnover tiny business (4%) with 1 employee.

This level of fine is totally unreasonable and should be excused for people who are clearly trying to do the right thing and have a reasonable excuse.  

There should at least be a specific warning email before the penalty is applied.

Because of sheer terror the thought of a penalty instills, I have taken to phoning HMRC to ask them if everything is in order.  This is not the best use of HMRC or my time!!!.

 

 

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19th May 2014 12:55

No online P60s!

Last time I checked, HMRC were still not enabling online P60s for employees.

Michael Mouse springs to mind..........

 

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19th May 2014 13:27

filing tax returns

Nightmare penalties but HMRC helpline people are amazingly helpful and will usually confirm that its all OK.  Not probably best use of their time, but it does save the filer nightmares.

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19th May 2014 17:11

In Writing?

gailpurvis wrote:

Nightmare penalties but HMRC helpline people are amazingly helpful and will usually confirm that its all OK.  Not probably best use of their time, but it does save the filer nightmares.

Do HMRC confirm to you this fact in writing?

If  not, then when the good 'ole penalty carnival begins............

 

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By pippa
19th May 2014 15:40

My problem is that what I say I have filed and what debt collection maintain was filed, are completely different (5k's worth) and they can't tell me what they think I filed, so I can't revise it and they keep chasing for the non existent debt that I couldn't possibly have told them was due in the first place....

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20th May 2014 00:42

I agree the HMRC staff are very helpful - once you get through.

But why have an unhelpful IT system that does not help give confidence that all is in order followed by brutal penalties followed by overworked but helpful staff to help navigate thru the brutality and provide confidence?!?!

A helpful IT system that gave confidence and specific warnings of potential penalties would save a lot of hassle and money all round.

 

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20th May 2014 18:46

Helpful HMRC staff - definitely an oximoron

cramsden wrote:

I agree the HMRC staff are very helpful - once you get through.

But why have an unhelpful IT system that does not help give confidence that all is in order followed by brutal penalties followed by overworked but helpful staff to help navigate thru the brutality and provide confidence?!?!

A helpful IT system that gave confidence and specific warnings of potential penalties would save a lot of hassle and money all round.

Can you pass me a note of the number you are calling, as the operator is clearly connecting us to alternate realities.

MtF

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21st May 2014 09:25

Fines

I to am worried have I correctly filed payroll's on line its very worrying.  You have to wait ages to speak to a HMRC  on the phone, mind you i have the feeling they are having the same conversation with various people. 

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21st May 2014 12:20

Helpful HMRC Staff?

If anyone can provide me with a contact number for someone in HMRC that will help, II'd be very grateful as, even though I think I've done all the necessary for our very small concern with two employees, I'm conscious that there's an abyss in my knowledge of RTI and PAYE requirements.  It sounds as though genuinely trying to do the right thing might count for nothing against the backdrop of RTI and the cloud of confsuion surrounding it.

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