HMRC data security lapses - the final straw. By John Stokdyk

In the longer term it will, of course, be beneficial.

This always sounded like another piece of spin to me and this evening the BBC reported that there were allegations that far more senior managers at Assistant Director level were actually involved. If this is the case then clearly the HMRC confirm what we always suspected, they are an arrogant, incompetent organisation who believe they are above the law. I hope that the Police, the IPCC and the Data Protection Commissioner will spare no reputations in their search for the truth and that the chickens come rapidly home to roost and that the guilty parties lose their jobs. After all, this is far from the first time they have made serious mistakes. They show little mercy to the tax payer who has made a mistake, so why should they be spared?

The recent fiasco at HMRC is the direct consequence of two fundamental problems with the tax system which must be fixed if we are to restore morale to them and avoid other mistakes. First, the UK tax regulations are too badly structured to computerise as even the Self Assessment form for private individuals shows and second the quality of the computer code that underpins the country's systems is in such an appalling state and so patched up that it is not supporting the taxman or us as taxpayers.

The sprawling, overcomplicated tax rule book is now self-defeating. The last 10 years' worth of micromanagement of tax matters has greatly accelerated the problem that has always been endemic in UK legislation: that our law making process has insufficent shape and lacks the necessary design to make it efficient to apply in practice. How little time is devoted to the Finance Bills? How our MPs just add more words to the statute book without rationalising regularly what is already on it. Where are the worked examples in the law that would highlight the illogicality of proposed legislation and force it to be improved before reaching the statute book? And that great Accountancy Age barometer: how many MPs complete their own tax returns??

As for the code in the systems, this is an appalling accretion of changes over many years applied to COBOL and other old programs that fewer and fewer people understand and which the IT people are too afraid to change fundamentally because they don't know for sure what will fail to work when they do touch it. The outsourcers that HMRC have used make grand promises but in relaity throw lots of people at the issues as that shows something is happening and they can charge huge sums for it. The lead can be taken from some overseas tax regimes that use software tools to identify solutions to problem areas far faster and more safely than humans can.

The challenge is to find the political will to act differently and to find people who can see this through. After some senior sackings there should be plenty of cash to do this.

Don't all Govt offices work within the "secure" Govt Gateway - if so wouldn't an email have been more secure?

I cannot but wonder, if it has been so easy for a tax office clerk to access this information, that it hasn't been done several times before this latest cock-up and that the spate of identity thefts in the last few years includes information from downloads at other tax offices.

We only hear what the Government cannot avoid telling us; it took over a month to disclose this blunder, how many others have there been which they have managed to hide?

Your knowledge of employment law demonstrates you are outside your own field of expertise and, in any event, there are many more obvious questions but there is no foolproof solution. Reverting to the option to receive any payment/refund by cheque would be be preferred by some "customers".

I understand the culprit is currently in a "safe house". Presumably it is best he does not get named else he might have crowds of irate parents gathered outside his home.

No, I doubt that this half-witted scapegoat is the person whose head should be on the block.

The reality is that in a well-managed oragisation, people think about what they are doing and are not afraid to qusetion orders they disagree with or don't understand. Managers listen to the staff and are prepared to stand corrected if an employee gives good reasons why their instructions should not be followed.

In a rubbish organisation, the staff know no-one listens to them anyway. Why should they care what happens. they will just follow what they consider their orders to be. This fiasco is what happens next when an organisation is run into the ground.

Paul Gray should not have been allowed to resign. He should have been sacked and the rest of the higher paid board.

Two of my CDs hold 1400 megabytes and to record 25 million records each record would have to average 56 bytes (characters) each or less including overhead data. My own details (for example) take 81 characters minumum, probably more.

We have been told that 25 million records including names, addresses, NI numbers, dates of birth and bank account numbers were sent on two CDs.

Was the data compressed? Maybe the report that 'they were password protected' means the data was simply zipped with a password?

Maybe someone who knows more could explain the data size discrepency in the official press releases.

CDs or DVDs (even with double capacity) - there is no effective difference to any darling one of those browned off.

If anybody out there has problems due to this incompetence - is it possible to actually sue the Minister for negligence?

I offered my commiserations to HMRC on the day of the Chancellor's statement as follows:

"Was this a bona fide commercial arrangement without the purpose or main purpose of tax avoidance?

I hope no one will commit suicide in the woods by slashing his wrists with a knife bearing no fingerprints and without loss of blood; or by being Brazilian down the Underground.

HMRC is an organisation riddled with incompetence, arrogance, sanctimony,.hypocrisy, jobsworthery, spite, political correctness and the excessive zeal that John Knox would have greatly admired; and the aggregate IQ of all its employees is not a positive number"

I applaud the appointment of "Dave" (sic) Hairnet as the new chairman. A highly able and dangerous opponent has been sidelined into a job where he can do little harm. Clearly not part of the Litigation and Settlement Strategy. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi and its an ill wind.....

Jack Harper

Hope is restored!

At least someone at HMRC has a sense of humour. The front page of their website warns that there are 'renewed scams requesting personal information'.

We can now rest easy in the knowledge that HMRC have put these wretched people out of business.

Does anyone else have any difficulty obtaing clients records for pre 1996? Given the sensitive nature of the information sent to them regarding peoples tax situations I wonder if this is also sat on a disc down the back of someones filing cabinet no doubt knocked down there after a liquid lunch paid for via their expense claims and ultimately paid for by us. I have tried the direct written approach asking why information cannot be supplied but I have yet to receive a coherent response!

On another point given the amount of time and money that we have wasted and been expected to put up with due to HM Revenue & Customs lack of orginsiation and sheer arrogance has anyone had any ideas on the originsation of a more proactive stance. Obviously sending them a fee is probably a waste of time although we may have a collective claim for damages based on their lack of due care and attention.One thing that crossed my mind was to seal down the reems of Inland Revenue freepost reply envelopes that we all have and pop them in the post on the same day say 24th December! Given that as a sole trader I must have thousands knocking about here if most of the accountancy firms in the country do this then not only will it cause huge problems at their processing centres wasting their 'valuable' time and resources it should keep them out of the pub over xmas and add a few much needed pennies to the Royal Mails coffers. Any thoughts!