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HMRC Calling
But when HMRC calls me, how do I know it is HMRC calling me and not someone out to solicit additional information about one of my clients????
HMRC - a little more work required
It seems to me that HMRC haven't quite grasped this fully.
A clear protocol should be published, one that is watertight.
This is still full of (data protection) holes.
Ask for security information
I have recently taken the view that it is prudent to ask HMRC staff calling me to answer some security questions about the client so that I can be sure it is them, and not a fraudster. Surely this needs to work both ways?
Already tried
I have tried asking callers security questions ..... their response is they cannot answer my/our questions until my/our identity is verified!!!! I think this is called Catch 22.
Not strictly
No, you could get out of the situation by answering the security questions from HMRC.
It would be Catch-22 if by answering the question, you showed you were not trustworthy enough to speak to the caller ...
limited progress
Limited progress then. However HMRC clearly dont "get it" in terms of security and why agents might not like to give out confidential information over the phone to somone calling them.
Its a serious issue to be taken seriously. There is no reason agents couldnt be asked to read back something only we would know - eg a practice password, and then HMRC respond with a pre-validated 'response' code so we know its really HMRC.
Bog basic security - and it works too.
If auto-dialers are the issue, then dont use them for agents. I am not sure under what circstances debt recovering should be contacting agents in any case - on the odd occasion is happens I refer them to the client directly. Its not my job to chase money for the revenue.
security begins at home
One would hope HMRC take this seriously, since their own security appears to have been breached by people who may have extracted information from agents - possibly by just such phone calls.
Security
This is a different story to the one told at my local working together group. Here we were advised that no security questions should be asked when HMRC phone an agent. Following this advice, I have taken several HMRC callers to task. They always offer a call back number but that defeats the object as you then have to go through security anyway. The last time this happened I asked the caller to refer the matter to her line manager and for the line manager to write to me explaining why security questions were being asked on an outbound call, contrary to working together advice. I also asked the caller whether she had the correct address for my firm to write to and asked her to confirm this. She refused "on the grounds of security" - what rubbish!!. Needless to say no letter has been received. It is interesting that all calls with DMB are recorded - are they ever listened to by line managers to ensure that any queries have been dealt with?
On the DMB side, it seems that in many cases they somehow have the agents number as the first point of contact. Quite how this has happened I do not know. I can only assume either the wrong number has been fed into their system or else I have some clients who have decided I should be pestered rather than them!
what WT group do you belong to, codling?
It sounds as if you were given wrong info for sure - based on both my local WT discussions on the point, and central WT discussions. (and to be honest, I cannot imagine us ever getting to the stage your local HMRC WT reps described). You need take this up with your local WT HMRC head, not the soles who phone you and follow orders!
As so oftenever, HMRC will not fully think through the issues, or at least they will not if it involves a cost to them. I'm sorry to say that this means I do not take calls from HMRC if it is a "cold call" that requires security steps ; it's too one-sided. I welcome "warm calls" from HMRC officers who are dealing with a case and know who they are calling - it is better, quicker, more effective in majority of cases. I look forward to the day when the security system for "cold calls" is properly symmetrical, since I am sure these could be of benefit to agents as well as HMRC. (excluding credit chasing !!)
HMRC CALLING
Had this as a problem this morning. I was left a note to say that HMRC had rung and to call them back as I was unavailable. I rang them back as per their request and then they couldn't talk to me as I was not a cheque signatory?!! What do I do now? It was ascertained that because of this that would be as far as the conversation went. Also added to this as I was only the book-keeper I told them that they really needed to talk to the Accountant but they would not even take his details as there was no safeguard to tell them I was telling them the truth. In desparation with "not working together" I gave up! Ali Castle
Data Protection is Key
Our practice implemented years ago a comprehensive security grilling of anyone calling the office and claiming to be from HMRC. Quite often the officer refuses to answer our questions and we politely ask them to put their request in writing having neither confrimed or denied that we ask for the client to which they refer.
Our first and foremost responsibility is to protect our client's data. The caller could be anyone!!
Its a Data Protection issue - no question
There is a lot of nonsense ascribed to the Data Protection Act, with all sorts of organisations using it as an excuse for not doing things that they see as inconvenient or expensive (They hope that you are as unsure of the details of the Act as they are, and so cannot challenge them - and they are usually right).
In this case, however - it's quite clear that you should NOT disclose personal information about your clients to any incoming caller whose rights to that information has not been established (and established with enough due-diligence to protect you from potential litigation).
The Act started life as an IT issue, which is why I made it my business to keep an eye on it from its early days - but the Act now covers most organised filing systems - even if there is NO computerised element - and a typical Tax Department's files would clearly qualify as a 'Relevant Filing System' under the Act.
I suspect that HMRC will only begin to address this properly if they start to encounter enough push-back from the profession to make a real impact.
Nail on head
Anonymous this morning has hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what we do.
Why bother jumping through Revenue hoops when the end product is rarely anything of real concern? Just get them to put it in writing and, there you are, audit trail instantly re-established.
Catch 22
As posted previously, it causes a catch 22 situation. The caller (HMRC) will not give any information until they have correct responses to security questions - we do not give out personal information until we have verified who the caller is, and HMRC won't answer security questions!!!!!!. Surely it is the caller who should be checked, not the person receiving the call?
It seems a shame that we have to go back to snail mail just because HMRC do not have a verification system that does not protect the agents, eg. we have to take a gamble that we ARE speaking to HMRC or wait for postal correspondence.
Security checks
When I receive a call from HMRC I ask them a security check question such as 'what is my SA agent identifer number?' as anyone could impersonate a revenue officer. If they cannot -or will not- answer then I tell them to write in with their enquiry. Graham
When I call an HMRC corporation tax office it is always engaged!
Whenever I call an HMRC corporation tax office, the line is engaged. So much so that I have now given up trying to telephone them.
So I do not have the chance to be asked security questions.
It would be nice to get to speak to anyone at the corporation tax office, so that I can be asked security questions.
HMRC phone calls
We have noticed that most of these calls from HMRC are made after 5:30 and are fielded by our anwerphone.
One one occasion I was in the office and picked up the phone - the HMRC officer on the other end was totally 'thrown' to get a human response.
Is there another agenda here? Leaving quick answerphone messages = as many productivity 'points' as a more conventional office hours conversation or do all those minutes waiting on 0845 when replying provide more income to HMRC?
HMRC CALLS
if a revenue bod calls me and asks me to go through security (not all do) i say i'm not going through security since they called me and i let them decide if they want to continue.....invariably they don't and that's the end of the call.....simples!!
HMRC calls to agents
We have just yet again, had a call form an HMRC contact centre trying to ID us as agents before they will tell us why they are calling. When we explained we only have to give our company name and if that agrees with the 64-8 they no longer have to do further checks, they told us there had been no changes to their internal instructions and that if we would not answer any further questions they could not deal with us. Needless to say we said Goodbye! But why have they no idea the procdure has changed?