iXBRL pioneer previews HMRC event
David Forbes, the UK’s foremost purveyor of iXBRL-based software, is looking forward to the HMRC exhibition of iXBRL Corporation Tax products at Chelsea football ground next week and has been spreading the message at recent meetings with ACCA’s Thames Valley region and CIMA’s practitioners’ conference.
“People need to see this stuff in action and have some sort of confirmation that everything will be ready,” he said, “or start moving to vendors who have proved they’ve got something that works.”
Forbes Computer Systems was the first software developer recognised by HMRC as being able to file both the iXBRL computations and final accounts that will need to accompany the electronic CT600 return when online filing becomes mandatory next April. (*TaxCalc received recognition in the past week - ed
According to Forbes preparing an iXBRL file for CT computations is reasonably straightforward. “It’s the accounts that are the difficult bit. For a typical FRSSE company the CT computation takes up a page and that doesn’t vary too much from company to company.” In contrast the accounts can take up 18-19 pages and vary from company to company. Big company accounts are even more complex.
Forbes created an XBRL-based accounts production package in 2005 “because we knew XBRL was coming along” and his firm was the first to submit abbreviated accounts to in the format Companies House. Since then he has represented the software industry body BASDA on HMRC working parties that deliberated about how to accommodate the accountant’s need to see the accounts in their definitive, client-approved form with the department’s demand for accounts information that complies with the eXtensible Business Reporting Language (XBRL) specification for UK GAAP. Inline XBRL (iXBRL) is the compromise that resulted – and Forbes has first-hand knowledge of why and how it has been developed.
Because Forbes built his XBRL accounts production program from scratch, there was no need to adapt existing code, or cater the whims of users – the reason why many other companies in the tax and practice market have struggled with their iXBRL projects
“It would be much easier for Sage or IRIS to write a new application, which is what we did,” he continued. “The more powerful an accounts production package is, the more difficult it is to put iXBRL into it retrospectively. Users of Sage and IRIS will been tinkering with formats, so not only to they have to support a new package, they also have to support the stuff people have done with the old one. ”
September will see a second HMRC iXBRL event devoted to accounts production packages, but Forbes encouraged accountants to take the opportunity to review their Corporation Tax options on Wednesday the 30th. “It’s what’ they did with Self Assessment and good to see them replicate the roadshow idea,” he said.
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No axes to grind
I agree it is difficult to compete with "free", but our accounts software is £335 for unlimited accounts and so not thousands of pounds. The HMRC software is free to you, but of course has been paid for by someone and not a trivial amount either. You may feel it is correct for the HMRC to provide subsidised software, but that is a separate issue.
Most people don't rekey data into our software, they bring it in from a TB in excel or import it from bookkeeping software. I am a big fan of excel but I am not sure about people producing their own accounts in it.
If people really really want to start tagging up their accounts in excel so that they can be transmitted as xbrl I have started jotting down some notes as www.tax.co.uk/products/excelxbrl.htm but as I say it I think this would be a large undertaking.
Competitive accounts production challenge
I like the sound of this. AccountingWeb could draw up the rules - but it is probably too late to get it into the 2012 Olympics.
There could be individual events and then the triathalon - prepare accounts, send to CH, complete CT return.
Open to individuals and each vendor could put forward its champion.
I am already starting my training ! Where can I get a carbon fibre competition mouse from ?
There's more to accounts than an abbreviated balance sheet and C
"For me, the ideal system obtained for a year or two - an excellent pdf-based Balance Sheet system run by Companies House and a quick to fill in CT600 run by HMRC to which pdf attachments could be added (including the aforesaid Companies House document and pdfs 'printed' from Excel)."
David
What about the full accounts needed by HMRC and the tax computations?
a fascnating couple of hours at Chelsea
a wide range of solutions were being touted about
i need to do a little bit more research but will post my findings later
i saw John Stoydyk out of the corned of my eye but he had fled before i could buttonhole him... wise man
Permit me to disagree
“It’s got to be the time for people to move away from Excel for final accounts production. Producing accounts with a spreadsheet is so inefficient. I appreciate that people want to customise things and are already familiar with Excel, but it’s not an ideal tool for doing this.”
Well that depends on your view of efficiency, and Mr Forbes has an axe to grind in this.
Larger firms where numerous people contribute to a case obviously do benefit from a high-end system that does everything, but for one-man bands like me, it is less efficient to be a slave to a system. Why would it be any more efficient for me to key the data into his system, then submit it, than to key the data into a form from the HMRC/Companies House websites? How many Thousands do his and other systems cost compared to the £Nil I am paying now?
For me, the ideal system obtained for a year or two - an excellent pdf-based Balance Sheet system run by Companies House and a quick to fill in CT600 run by HMRC to which pdf attachments could be added (including the aforesaid Companies House document and pdfs 'printed' from Excel).
Then HMRC fouled everything up with their 'upgrade' to the CT600 which is so bad I have gone back to paper submissions for the duration.
I don't know what I will do after next April if HMRC do not get their act together. One option will be to not submit any CT600s until Autumn 2011 in the hope that sense prevails by then.