Lord Carter to review HMRC online services

As of last week it was taking 17 days to process form 64-8 by the new CAA Team.
Without this form being processed it is not possible for an agent to submit SA Tax Returns on-line.
I see problems with new clients taken on in January with SATRs to be submitted.

Will this be addressed before the problem time arrives or will it be the fault of the taxpayer for not sorting his/her affairs out earlier.

Also why is it not acceptable to submit form 64-8 by fax?
Actually in emergencies this has been allowed after long discussions ending up with agreement with an inspector.

It would help to simplify online filing for agents if there was a single user ID for the practice (with adequate set-up security in place) rather than separate user ID's for PAYE/SA/Corp tax. This would surely reduce the amount of information and paperwork which is generated both within HMRC and agents offices. This would enable agents to deal more easily with clients overall affairs - or is this too simple?

I was told only this week that the delay in processing 64-8's was "up to 10 weeks" ?!

I have clients whom I have acted for years for, who all of a sudden don't have me set up as their Agent ?! (and yes I am still acting and have volumes of Inland Revenue correspondence on file where the tax man has been corresponding directly with me up until now)

I offer to fax over copies of 64-8's - no joy, "faxes aren't accepted"

Oh and the other really great leap forward in assistance from the Inland Revenue . . . . . . the Call Centres !?!?!?! When, after atleast 30 attempts (minimum) to get through, you finally get to talk to someone you find they "don't have access to that information/ the files", you ask to be put through to the tax office direct you get the incredible line "they don't have telephones in the local districts" ?!?!

To be fair though I have not spoken to anyone at either the Call Centres or local offices (when I get in my car and drive down to see them face to face) who actually think this new system is working - they are as frustrated as us on this side of the fence !

How on earth are we supposed to do our jobs ?!

I am still not sure that the Revenue and Customs on-line filing system is working properly.

I recently submitted 3 returns over the net, which all has 64-8's in place and could be viewed via the Revenue website online self assessment system.

I had an e-mail receipt back from HMIT saying that the returns had been received and they were going to be processed, so all was well!

A week later I checked Revenue website for the 3 clients and it said that none of the returns had not been received. I phoned the call centre who said that the returns had not been received and that I should give the on-line help desk a call.

They also advised me that no trace of the return could be found either and I should send them an e-mail, with their receipted e-mail attached to one of their team, which I did.

The online team responded by saying that they could not e-mail me any results as it would be a breach of confidentiality, which seems an incredible mess to me.

To date the Revenue website still says that those return have not been received. I remember that it was so much easier when using the postal system.

I would like to hear anybody's comments or similiar happenings.

After having waited until today to be "updated on our records" - after submitting 64-8'S on 6 May - I have just been told by the Customer Service Office that they can not give me any information over the telephone . . . . . they will take a note of my enquiry and fax the details to me . . . . . for security purposes ?!?!?!?!?!

Oh and guess what ?! Yep - still waiting for the fax !!!

You ask what advice one would give to Lord Carter in his new role - reviewing online services for HMRC. In a word : LISTEN.

Too many reviews appear to have the outcome pre-prepared and the "consultation" then set up merely as a cosmetic process to validate the agreed result. This one must be different or HMRC systems will implode as more and more e-services are added - and each fails to meet predictable demands.

We all need, and want e-systems to work!

I have just been informed by a Customer Call Centre that they will email my request for information over to the tax office concerned "but please note it will take atleast 72 hours to get there"

Apparantly it then goes into the "normal" post so if there are arrears on hand it make take a few weeks to be dealt with - Its quicker to actually write in and send by first class post than to call the Call Centre and get them to email ?!?!

And I only had to call them because, 5 weeks after my written request for details, they have sent me the wrong information !!

Craig

re companies house, i tend to agree with you as stated in other threads. it can be so troublesome especially if you get a rejection, for which you have to wait days. it is not cost effective compared with sending back the preprinted 363. they need to take another step forward.

Susan

good to hear what you had to say, you at least have considerable influence in these exalted circles so coming from you i hope they sit up and listen!

I quite agree with the request to Lord Carter to listen to us. We, by far, liase with the Revenue more than the taxpayers but I can't help think that when politicians refer to the Revenue's customers, they don't mean accountants.

For the small amount of individual taxpayers that use the online system, the system may work fine for the majority. However, the main delays I experience is with the CAAT and the dreadfull delay with the processing of P35s. If they are going to offer incentives for P35 processing, then what planet are they on if they don't think that most people are going to take them up on it. So get your house in order first and have a system that copes. I am fed up with client's saying when do they get their £250! End of the summer/early autumn is not acceptable.

The 64-8 processing is a joke. 17 days is not true. I have noticed plenty of comments on here saying forms sent in May are still not activated. I have one client where a request for class 2 NI has been issued and followed up because a CWF1 was sent with the 64-8, but no acknowledgment of the 64-8 or a UTR number has been issued.

Online services are fantastic when they work, but when they don't, roll on the postal service!

I for one have no confidence in the impartiality of this next Carter review, following on from the payroll one where Carter seemingly granted everything the Revenue and government wanted and nothing that the profession or business wanted.

It seems fair to assume that the "foregone conclusion" of this review will be compulsory on-line filing as per payroll, and presumably once again sweetened by bribes (sorry, "incentives").

It may seem antediluvian to many of the contributors to this website but I for one do not particularly like on-line services and still much prefer to file in paper with proper supporting attachments (which, I believe, is still the standing advice of the Tax Faculty) and I strongly resent being made to operate a different way and compromise my clients defence to specious enquiries in what is laughably said to be a free country.

Consistency would be a good thing.

We have had issues where 64-8s submitted years ago are suddenly no longer valid on the Inland Revenue IT systems but some districts will accept a fax of the original and some will not.

It would also be great if we could file tax returns outside of the current year of assessment.

Also why is it that we can view CT and SA liability and payments online but not for PAYE?

The haphazard approach to the implementation of IT systems is causing more problems for HMRC and taxpayers agents.

If these where systems introduced within business then customers would go elsewhere. Unfortunately we do not have that luxury with HMRC. Quite disgraceful for a government department.

With regard to Brians earlier comment I am not sure what system you are using but our practice only has one user id and password for CT/SA/PAYE online services.

Summarising the feedback we get from our users, the two biggest issues are processing/requirement for 64-8s and the lack of a facility for earlier years returns under SA filing by internet.

There was no requirement for a 64-8 to be in place to file on the old ELS system. There has long been talk of taxpayers being able to assign an agent online and taxpayers already get a userid and password with their tax returns. Surely the need for paper 64-8s could be removed at a minimal cost.

As for filing multiple years returns, we did point this out as a flaw in 1999 before the internet filing system went live ....

Generally though, things could be a lot worse and we must remember the IR are constrained to link up to legacy back end systems.

For three clients P35 filed electronically, no problems. Couldn't file CIS36 electronically because IR decided not to allow this.

As a result CIS36 forms go in by post & IR local tax office then chase clients for tax that is not owing - apparently local tax offices have no access to electronically filed P35's !

Is this not a case of IR technological or systems management incompetence ?

Why does the taxpayer have to keep sufferring because of IR's lack of ability to manage it's IT systems ?

We need an automatic penalty system set up to compensate taxpayers in this situation.