PAYE: HMRC allow filing extension and agree penalty mitigation

Jim,

ESC B46 does apply to CIS36s does it not?

"Not charging a penalty" is not the same thing as "not logging the return as filed late".
The distinction may appear petty but it is the sort of thing that providers of professional fee protection insurance latch onto. Me? I'm still aiming for 19 May.

Next question is whether, for those who do justly qualify for a penalty, whether they can expect to wait until Feb 2008 to receive a nine hundred pounder.

As far as contractors' CIS returns are concerned there are no fines for late submission during the initial 6 months - whether the returns are made electronically or on paper.

The only thing to watch on CIS returns is that if a contractor makes three or more late returns during that period they could lose their own gross payment status as a subcontractor - this could be more damaging to their cash flow than a fine.

Ian - for 2006/7 you cannot file CIS36 returns on-line ; never have been able to ; so you need to get the paper return off pronto . CIS on-line is for the new regime and seems to also be in absolute chaos .

We have a handful of new payroll clients for which FBI 2's have been submitted (around mid to late April) but have still not been processed.

For reasons we have still not managed to get to the bottom of, we are unable to electronically file these clients P35's. Last year we could file returns without a formal FBI 2 being in place but this year we can't. We use Sage for our payroll and at the moment both HMRC and Sage are blaming each other.

Does anyone know a workaround for this problem or do we just have to wait for HMRC to get round to logging the FBI 2?

If we have to wait for the FBI 2 to be logged, will this be viewed as "reasons outside our control"?

Many thanks in anticipation of some helpful guidance.

Does anyone really believe that HMRC will be ready to put the Carter proposals in force in time - and without a hitch?

If they cannot deal with P35s what chance have they got to deal with tax returns next year. It is all going to be one big mess.

Who gets the blame form clients?

What about Contractors Returns? Does the same extension apply to them?

If one gives up on trying to file online, is it OK to send in a paper Return and not be penalised despite it being past 19 May?

It is my understanding that an FBI2 is not required if you use third party software. Certainly for CIS this applies.

I'm not sure how your Sage software would check that an FBI2 is in place?

We file as Agents using our Agent's ID and password but don't use Sage software, we use Superpay. Perhaps I have misunderstood and you are not registered as an Agent to file online.

Still not clear, does the filing deadline extension apply to paper returns as well?

The CIS36 for 2006/07 must be submitted on paper and the deadline is unchanged at 19th May - so you need to get a move on.

Hmm, bet HMRC did not anticipate quite so many queries regarding this latest annoucement!

I would wager that this applies likewise to CIS returns and paper returns already have an extension courtsey of ESC B46.

Given the recent agent authorisation saga, if you have not got your FBI2s and this is delaying filing, then that is a pretty good excuse, as probably out of your control. Not too sure the situation if you have not got authorisation because your client sat on his letter, as I would suggest that "out of your control" should be read as "out of the control of both agent and client".

Anyway, I will see if can confirm these suggestions.

Sorry Jim - I'm not talking about the new CIS scheme which has a 6 months settling in period - I'm talking about the 2006/07 Contractors Returns which I understand get fined £100 per month for which they are late

We use paymaster by Moneysoft and no FBI2 is needed. Your sage software should allow you to lodge the P35.

If not perhaps you need to look at another software prider

The Sage payroll software does not care about the FBI2, and no other 3rd party software will either because it is not part of the requirements for 3rd party software.

Basically, as long as HMRC have allocated your agent credentials against your client's details you will be able to submit. If you can't then HMRC have not completed their side of the arrangment.

This is no use to me. An apology is empty without an attempt at reparation. I am paying a salary to a person who should be able to file a P35 every 15 minutes but, due to inadequate resources at HMRC, is lucky if she can file two a day.

I can't charge the clients for this.

When can I expect a cheque to cover the wasted time that I am having to pay her for?

Message to John Gilbertson

When HMRC delay in putting your FBI2 forms on your site, you need to ring them and tell them you want to fax the copies you have. Problem is they won't accept them if you haven't got signed copies. Before faxing them, make sure that HMRC will put them on your site that day.

They complained that they had 10,000 FBI2 forms, but I told them, I wasn't concerned how many they had, I wanted my clients on. If they are not up to the job, they shouldn't be doing it.

One of my clients authorised me to be their agent in April 2006, and it has only been put on to my site yesterday, and that was after about 10 telephone calls to HMRC. Apparently they entered some details incorrectly at their end and although they could see his name at their end, I couldn't. In the end my client signed and sent 2 more FBIs and only after being given a telephone number of one of their top brass was I able to get them to see their error.

It has been a bigger shambles this year than ever before.

Can we file the paper CIS form 36 after 19th May and not get a penalty? , or does this concession only apply to online filing of P35?

I filed a CIS36 form last year after the 19th May (I think it was 24th or 25th) and they issued a £100 penalty.

I did appeal against this and luckily they cancelled the penalty, which I think is correct.

ESC B46 is a concession for filing returns.

Surely, the CIS36 form is also a "return" and as such should be covered by this concession.

If not, then they should make this absolutely clear, so that people know where they stand.

HMRC say that providing it is in the letterbox when they open it on Tues AM they will treat it as filed on time.
Try and file a paper return after the box is open and you have blown it (subject to reasonable excuse).

Yes - ESC B46 applies to CIS36.

But remember that ESC B46 grants exemption from penalties if the return is received by midnight on the last business day within 7 days of the filing deadline - which means Friday, 25th May. The Revenue may accept that anything in their letterbox when they return to work on Tuesday, 29th May, could have been put there by midnight on the previous Friday, but I would not rely on it.