You might also be interested in
Replies (7)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
NHS Constitution ...
In the week that saw the unveiling of the "NHS Constitution" it might be time to consider one for HMRC ?
On the subject of "George", had it not occurred to HMRC that they were themselves negligent, in issuing the £9k cheque without having run their own checks ?
Or can that term only apply to "customers" ?
HMRC should check
What has happened here is that this person has had and spent 9k in error and does not now have to pay it back as he has no means.
It would be nice to think HMRC had rather more checks on how they gave out taxpayer's money. The repay now check later system must be open to organised abuse.
I have every sympathy for the people in this situation and feel HMRC fails in any possible duty of care to them and to the wider public in the system being the way it is.
optimism and trust
Optimistic that the warning would be effective - most certainly! A warning might however make a few people think twice. In practice I expect that most would either not read it, or would mis-interpret it.
A warning would however at least be a start - something that we could point to in the inevitable call to the client to say 'no they haven't said you are right'.
Ideally HMRC would call the agent prior to authorising a significant repayment, or check it properly before issuing it - but then perhaps my optimism is turning into pipe dreams.
Trust the Taxman
I would go as far as to say that almost all taxpayers - represented or not - always believe the Taxman to be correct. How many times have you had a client pay a different sum of tax from what you advised as being due (or worse - none at all) because the Taxman's bill had a different amount on it , or showed nothing due. Even now, in 2009, we still have to explain that self assessment means exactly that.
But then, was it any better the 'old' way - trying to explain estimated assessments and the need to get accounts/tax returns in in order to get those estimates changed to actual? Maybe not....
And as to the case in hand - you could argue that letting him off with it would not be fair to those taxpayers who - not trusting themselves to fully understand and get their taxes correct, pay an adviser to deal with it so as to avoid making such a 'costly mistake. And what of those who do go to great pains to sit down and double check everything so as not to make a mistake. No, I think it is right that the taxpayer needs to pay the money back in someway but maybe interest and penalties should be waived due to the 'innocent' nature of the deed - although did he really, truly not suspect - just a little - that something might be amiss?? hmm...
Don't trust repayments
I suspect Andrew is being rather optimistic in thinking that attaching his suggested wealth warning on unexpected repayments would suffice. One client TaxHelp for Older People is representing at the moment phoned her tax office twice to check that the repayment was correct and jusitified. Twice she was assured that it was so. Then they demanded it back - "paid in error" - and are fighting tooth and nail to get it. We have been battling this one for 6 months now and have no intention of letting them get away with it.
Regrettably we see many cases of this kind.
Paddy Millard
Comment needed
I often hear clients say 'they must have checked it before sending me the money' - perhaps because few taxpayers idly send out cheques for thousands of pounds without being very sure that the money is due. As such HMRC's routine comment that under self assessment the taxpayer should have verified that the repayment was correct before banking it, is at best wishful thinking - most taxpayers expect HMRC to be far more able than them to correctly calculate their liability!
At the very least HMRC should add a health warning to the repayment to warn taxpayers that it has not been verified by HMRC - something along the lines of:
"This repayment has been automatically generated based on the returns submitted to HMRC. Please contact us if you are unsure that the amount is correct as interest and penalties may be charged if the amount is subsequently found to have been repaid in error."
Self assessment difficulties
As one of the many thousands clogging the HMRC self assessment system myself yesterday, I was quite concerned to read the tale of woe posted by Simon Sweetman. As he says the biggest problem is the length of time it took for them to find the error. Makes me wonder what I'm going to get hit with in some future year when I have totally forgotten about my tax return I did for 2007/8