‘Reasonable excuse’ advised for missing partner UTRs

Posted by John Stokdyk PM | on Thu, 27/01/2011 - 10:49 11940 15 comments

In response to a rash of queries and complaints, HMRC has posted an alert on its website on 21 January advising partnership members without UTRs to wait until they get the reference and submit a reasonable excuse claim form alongside the late return.

The tax department acknowledges that “some existing partnerships may not yet have received Unique Taxpayer References (UTR) for new partners”, but does not explain why so many partnerships appear to be affected.

Those affected include partners and partnerships who:

filed a paper tax return and applied for a reference in good time to meet the 31 October deadline, but did not receive the UTR in time
fall within HMRC’s list of specials and exclusions for online filing and have until 31 January 2011 to file a paper return
are still waiting for UTRs to file online by the 31 January deadline.

HMRC advises anyone prepareing Self Assessment returns for these groups to file the tax return when they get the UTR and to make a reasonable excuse claim on the basis of the delayed UTR notification. The claims will need to be accompanied by details of the dates when the UTR was requested, when it was received and when the return was filed.

AccountingWEB.co.uk tax editor Rebecca Benneyworth questioned the advice and pointed out that partners and partnerships still waiting for UTRs wouldn' need to follow HMRC's latest advice.

"People in this situation don't need reasonable excuse," said Benneyworth. "If they haven't got a UTR, they will definitely not have a notice to file - and will have three months to complete their return when they get one," she said.

Continued...

missing utrs

bald and bearded | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 12:06 | Permalink

I have two individuals for whom we have been waiting for months for utrs to file on line ! and now this nonsense of having to send in a form so the revenue know which sa pages to issue - 0h come on chaps get a life and issue on 64-8s !

I also got told the other day that they have stopped sending agents copies of client notices of coding - the client is telepathically supposed to know this and use their stamps to post to the agent - all part of cost saving - improving service?????Why can't they email like they do for PAYE coding and save a fortune???

Tony Taylor Birmingham.

UTR's

jon_griffey | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 12:26 | Permalink

I phoned Newcastle in late December as I have new partnership clients who needed UTR's. They told me that for applications made now (December), they would not be dealing with them until April. I know that the clients are at fault for not notifying sooner, but 5 months delay is ridiculous.

Foreign Partners

apacarada | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 12:30 | Permalink

Also, HMRC has failed to find a solution for partners that are non UK residents or foreign companies which do not have UTR numbers.

Partnerships and LLPs where members don't have UTR number have to file by paper only. If they miss the 31 October deadline then reasonable excuse claim form may not be accepted.

Arber Pacarada

www.solidlimited.co.uk

Misguided management ideas

petersaxton | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 13:10 | Permalink

It looks like HMRCs philosophy is to stop functioning in some areas and then start again if there are overwhelming complaints.

Once I complained to a CEO about him not responding to my requests and he said it was his policy to not respond and judge the important requests by who chased him.

the problem I think

pauljohnston | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 13:16 | Permalink

is bigger than HMRC will admit.

In Jan10 I sent to CWF1s to newcastle with three 64-8 and a request for Partnership UTR. THe third was for a new partnership. Both clients got reponses re the CWF1. No partnership UTR appeared. Chased CAAT with copy forms in October so here we are at Jan11 one client has been asked to file. One has not.... and still no UTR for the partnership.

Is it not time we had a(nother) form to advisde HMRC that a partnership needs a Tax Form. Hopefully it will be a different colour so that those at Newcastle can put it in the correct to do pile .

Missing UTR s

DOSHISL | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 13:55 | Permalink

Would it not be easier to still use the 11111 11111 for the clients who have still not recived UTR s and refile once correct UTR has been received

If only the Inland Revenue did not block the use of this in this year.

Partnership tax form

jon_griffey | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 14:29 | Permalink

Paul - there is now a partnership form. It is called SA400

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/hmrc/forms/viewform.jsp?formId=4004

Finding the SA400

Malcolm Veall | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 15:14 | Permalink

I challenge anyone navigating through the HMRC "Starting in Business" section to find the SA400.

Here it is

Mouse007 | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 19:25 | Permalink

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa400.pdf

No UTR

GLB Accountancy... | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 19:28 | Permalink

I have a new client who has mislaid her UTR, HMRC will issue confirmation but only via second class post and this they have stated will take a minimum of 6 working days.

Does anybody know how to effect payment of my clients SA liability without having a UTR.

Can't find the UTR for payment

pauljohnston | Fri, 28/01/2011 - 19:35 | Permalink

there is a link in the article - 2011 Self Assessmemt Support Pack. If this does not work I have sucessfully sent in a cheque with a letter. In the letter the full name and address and NI no and a request to credit to that persons account with HMRC worked. Sent it to Shipley

Why oh why

MBK | Sat, 29/01/2011 - 08:02 | Permalink

Can't HMRC have a "process now check later" approach to UTRs? It can't be beyond even their wit to simply issue a UTR and record the principal name and address when an application is received and then deal with the rest of it later. If they are worried about security simply block repayments until the "check later" process is complete.

And if HMRC are really looking for efficiencies, why don't they delegate this work to authorised agents. I know we would happily load all the relevant / necessary details online for HMRC if the quid pro quo was that we would have a UTR issued there and then. OK, there are some security and validation issues to be dealt with, but that should be dealt with easily enough.

Think how much that would contribute to HMRC's headcount reduction aspirations - although it's tempting to believe at the moment that only my granny and her blind husband are dealing with issuing new UTRs anyway.

Uniqueness - allow NI as fallback !

mikewhit | Fri, 04/02/2011 - 07:19 | Permalink

And surely it would make sense (ok when did that ever matter) to allow use of NI number where there was no (known) UTR. More people know their NI than their UTR, it's on the payslip, for a start.

The NI is "more unique" than the UTR in that a person can have more than one UTR but only one NI (exceptions will no doubt flood in now)

I can't really believe that HMRC doesn't have a means of looking up or creating a UTR given an NI number.

The format is different so computer systems can easily spot the difference and use the correct reference.

Come on Hector ! Use your common sense !

HMRC inefficient - really??

chrisjoynes | Mon, 07/02/2011 - 09:35 | Permalink

Getting UTR numbers for clients is up their with trying to get a 64-8 processed - it just doesn't happen!! How can this be such a difficult thing to sort out - no privately run business could survive if it made their "customers" wait up to 5 months for an important reference number, maybe they're too busy running 50,000 pointless investigations into small businesses and how they keep their records to do what is really needed.

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Inland Revenue Tax Return

Authorisation codes

jon_griffey | Mon, 07/02/2011 - 09:59 | Permalink

I find it a really frustrating process getting authorisation codes.

We have had a number of casess recently where the codes do not turn up, or they turn up after the expiry date. This includes a code that we applied for that expired today. We are the registered office and so know that we have not received it.