VAT online – how to register

Not sure Rebecca made it clear - you don't need the activation code to set up a DD for VAT. The activation code/PIN that gets sent out is to activate a secondary service called "Update VAT reg details" e.g. where you can update your business address online rather than sending HMRC a letter. If the link to set up a DD for VAT is not showing when you first register, it is usually because the first VAT return is over a month away. The link to set up the DD automatically appears when the option to file the first VAT return appears.

Also - the bit about the client having to register on the gateway - this is not really a problem as they will have had to obtain a user ID and password in the set up anyway in order to register for eVAT, so they just use the same user ID and password on the gov gateway as they do on the HMRC website. There's no need for a separate account.

I think the way a client's eVAT account currently gets allocated to an agent account is much better than the PAYE and CT methods of a PIN in the post so I hope Rebecca is not saying HMRC are chaninging this! If a client gives you their log in it can be done in seconds and a VAT return filed as agent immediately rather than if you wanted to view a PAYE/CT account - having to wait for the PIN to be sent to the client through the post and then having to wait a day or two for the client to appear on the agent list once the PIN has been entered...

After tying myself in knots, I created this quick guide which summarises the steps:

http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/index.php/tax-guides/114-how-to-register-for-vat-online-taxpayers

See the link at bottom of the article for the guide for agents.

What happens to Businesses especially Sole Traders who are not Computer literate.

I have many a client over this threshold who don't know how to switch on a Computer never mind file VAT returns Online, and as for Banking Online get real do you trust Banks?(I worked for one for 30 years.).

Again everybody is being railroaded into something never agreed to by the PEOPLE (democracy) It is maybe time every business in the country closed its doors & let the state provide all the jobs with cushy pensions & allowances.

Hi Nichola,

Thank you for that tax geek link! that is a great little tool you have there and was really easy to use. I have just registered myself for the online VAT registration now and was nice and simple - so thank you very much!  By the way, that site of yours looks pretty good, is it a new website that you are working on?

-- Gavin Fernandes ACA, CTA - www.mggrouplondon.co.uk

They should have just offered an incentive to file online.

 I know people who are actually terrified of computers and specifically organise their life to avoid using them. The idea of forcing people to learn to use computers, use software and get on the internet is plain stupid. The alternative, paying someone to submit the return and probably prepare it, is not affordable or practical for many people....especially those who have to prepare their return near the month end because they are always waiting for invoices or bank statements etc.

I think an incentive should definately have been put forward. Its like we are being forced to complete online. I am not saying it is not the way forward, in reality everything is becoming or has become so electronic now that it is inevitable but in light of how much VAT and Tax clients pay anyway HMRC could have at least offered a small incentive to keep clients happy!

I have now spend three days in total faffing around between the hmrc.gov site and the Government Gateway. I was already registered as an agent for VAT. I then registered myself for VAT online filing, then tried registering a new client for VAT.

When it comes to activation and linking me to my clients I have now discovered that I appear to have different IDs and passwords for each website, and the wretched Gateway now refuses to recognise that I registered on the hmrc site. It is then asking me to register again.

I strongly advise everyone to steer clear of this now, until there is one site it is going to be chaos. I appear to have at least six IDs!

I agree with unhappy bunny, however the anonymous first poster is my money is on them working for the VAT office!

I have just got my clients permission to register him on the gateway as an organisation. I then had to scrabble around to fing my public knowledge ID ( as opposed to my private ID)

I know have to wait for the client to receive his gateway Id and activation pin before I can proceed.

pray tell how this is better than going on my HMRC agent account, bunging in a few details and waiting for a PIN (which in the case of most company clients comes here as registered office anyway).

This is all after you have either found or applied for a duplicate VAT 4 - why can't we just stick in the VAT number, registered office postcode and last VAT due amount - simples! Why they need us to tell them the date of VAT registration, especially if we are already registered as VAT agent via 64-8?

I am the anon first poster and don't work for the VAT office, sorry to disappoint! Have been working for a small accountancy firm in London doing clients VAT returns every day for 6 years so unfortunately (rather geekily) know the gov gateway/HMRC eVAT very well...

...but the client still has to apply for gateway registration and await an activation code, which is no different to waiting for PIN for SA, CT or PAYE! I think I am correct in thinking that the client is supposed to do that themselves, not us pretending to be them? It also means we have to give them our public gateway ID, so I still contend the CT/SA/PAYE agent authorisation route is quicker and simpler than the VAT one. And as an expert in the field could you confirm whether an agent would still have to submit a paper 64-8 for the VAT office to talk to them and that the above rigmarole just relate to filing online for them?

Also, VAT office perversely correspond with trading address not Registered Office, which seems to make a mockery of company law!!

I don't quite understand the current fuss (if there is any, maybe I misunderstand) about the client having to wait for the PIN for eVAT - the PIN issued at the moment is for a secondary service that doesn't affect the filing of the eVAT returns even if the client never activates it. Yes technically the client should do the sign up and agent activation themselves, but if they are happy for us to do this on their behalf I don't think its a big problem as then we tell them to change their password. I much prefer taking 10 mins to sign a client up with a gov gateway account, linking them to our agent account and filing the VAT return instantly, rather than waiting at least 7 days for an (e.g. PAYE) authorisation code to be issued through the post to the client and then having to chase them for it.

Yes I think you are correct that if you want to get any useful information out of the national helpline about your client's VAT account at the moment then you do need the paper 64-8 as well. Although if you ring one of the local offices direct e.g. Grimsby flat rate dept, they seem much less bothered about security a lot of the time. However, what I understand from Rebecca's posts is that HMRC are going to bring in the same agent authorisation for VAT as it currently is for PAYE and CT so we wouldn't need both the paper 64-8 and signing up to file online as they would be done simultaneously with just one PIN sent to the client. Is this correct?

I set up my client on the gateway yesterday (after the "where the hell did we put the public agent gateway id" frantic search), but it wont let me (as my client) authorise me for online VAT until I have gateway ID and activation code, two separate letters to be posted and awaited, rather than just one as per CT et al.

Am I doing it wrong as I can't see any time saving as you can't seem to be able to do anything until the two doocuments are received? I admit once the gateway is set up you can add other services easily, but I have found no other reason for my clients being on the gateway other than to allow me to do VAT online!

In answer to your query, I do not know but I hope so as the 10 days wait is no problem, in most cases it will be done at the point you take on the client, or register the client for VAT in the first instance so a few days wait for a code is not really a problem.

Hi OGA, when you log in to the gov gateway as your client, do you see:

Welcome [insert client name]
You are logged in as an Organisation

Your Services
Enrolled services
You are currently enrolled for the following services. Select link to go to the service.

New VAT Returns - (lots of letters/reference)

On the left hand column, it should say:

Your account
Your services
Manage Services
Change your details
Manage Log-ins

Click on "Manage Services" - It should give you a page with a box -

Service and Identifier Status Action
New VAT Returns Active Unenrol
VATRegNo : x*x*x*x*x Appoint Agent

Clicking on the "Appoint Agent" link takes you to a page to enter your agent ID "company name - 12 digit ID", where the 12 digit ID (public) is slightly different to your agent ID you use to log in (private).

Sorry meant to add - you should have the client's ID from the sign up process - its given on screen and suggests printing out - as they then send a card in the post to confirm it, and the password to log in is the one you created in the sign up process so unless you didn't make a note of the ID then signing in should be no problem.

The ID that comes up seems to be just an example, you don't get the real one until they send you inthe post an activation code, then you can download your client ID, but only after you haved received the activation code by post.

I still see that either method involves a code being posted so where is the time saved, or am I still missing something (or did I miss something when I did the enrolment)?

I ended up with a page that said you have sucessfully registered, the Government Gateway has generated your user ID. It then shows a picture of an ID card and underneath it says you will be sent a card SIMILAR to the one above WHEN YOU COMPLETE ENROLMENT - which is presumably after receiving, IN THE POST, an activation code. At which point I assume you can then download a printable copy of the user ID?

I am not being sarcastic or facetious, I just want to understand how the effing thing works - it is not a well written process and I may have mis-read or mis-interpreted the instructions and it is really starting to get on my nerves now.

Hi again, If you used the HMRC site to sign up i.e. here: https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/registration/organisation?httpmethod=post, and ticked just the "VAT" box (not "VAT registration"), then the user ID it shows you in step 4 is the user ID which is being posted to you. e.g.

Step 4 - Note User ID

Registration for Organisation

Your Online Government Account has been created.

Your User ID is: xxxxxxxxxxxx

• You must make a note of this User ID as you will need it every time you log in to our Online Services along with your password.

• If you wish to print this information for your records, please use the print facility on your browser.

• If your enrolment is successful, within the next seven days you should receive a letter from the Government Gateway containing your User ID on a printed card.

The PIN which is being posted to you sounds like the PIN to activate the secondary service. When you sign up by ticking the "VAT" box as described above, it signs you up to two services simultaneously. 1) Submit VAT returns and 2) Update registration details. The PIN sent out is for service no.2. You can submit VAT returns straight away without needing the PIN. If you sign up to eVAT through the gov gateway instead, you would have to repeat the registration steps of entering the info below twice in order to sign up to both services, whereas if you sign up through HMRC you can just do it once and get both services at the same time. The same applies about the PIN in that they would only issue the PIN for serivce no.2 as you don't need a PIN for service no.1

• VAT Registration Number
• Principal Place Of Business postcode
• Date of Registration
• Month of last VAT Return period end
• The Box 5 figure on your last VAT return.

 This is my current understanding of how it works... unless they have completely changed it all in the past week or so (since the last time I signed up a new client) so I'm pretty sure you don't need the PINs.