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Working Together group airs tax filing frustration

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8th Mar 2005
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Minutes of an Inland Revenue Working Together meeting reveal disquiet among tax practitioners who experienced problems with SA Online, and provide an indication of practical difficulties that may face employers filing PAYE returns online.

The Chartered Institute of Taxation's Buckinghamshire Working Together group met on 24 February 2005.

One member had been unable to file the client's return electronically in 30% of cases, at least partly because many authority forms 64-8 had not been processed.

Last minute paper returns
The Revenue's area director (service) David Stephenson said the 'Oxon & Bucks' area had received more than 30,000 returns in the week leading to 31 January.

The increase on previous years was partly due to problems experienced with e-filing, he said, with the result that some taxpayers and agents filed paper copies at the last minute. The Area had offered to collect returns. All returns had been logged by 18 February.

Returns filed close to the deadline
One member of the Working Together group asked: "Can IR reassure us that their website will stop crashing every time we get close to a deadline!

"Saying the tax return should be filed before the deadline ignores an essential element of the meaning of a filing deadline - which is that if the filing date is 31 January then that is the date that they should all be filed on and not necessarily be filed before that date.

"So the IR should be prepared to accept all 12m self-assessment tax returns on that one day!"

'Crashing problems'
The minutes record that the Revenue official replied: "The [department] has always endeavoured to provide as robust a service as is physically possible.

"This year there was a 48% increase in the number of returns filed online, increasing to a total of 1,599,364 returns. The Revenue apologises if anyone experienced any difficulty in using the online service and acknowledges that a taxpayer is entitled to file their return right up to the 31 January deadline.

"But at the same time it would always encourage taxpayers to avoid using the system when it will be at its busiest so as to avoid 'crashing' problems."

Forms 64-8 not processed
Another member complained: "Although I hold forms 64-8 for all my clients, I was only able to e-file about 70% of the returns.

"Closer checking shows that not all of the 64-8s have been processed! Is there a reason why?

"Some were long standing clients (2yrs +), some new and therefore possibly still in somebody's in tray and some posted off more than 4 months ago. Why could I not e-file any partnership returns?"

The Revenue official replied: "It is correct to say that where a 64-8 authority is not held from a particular agent, that agent would not be able to file a return for their client electronically whether it's an individual return or one for a partnership.

"But why the practitioner asking the question has not had approximately 30% of the forms 64-8 they've submitted processed is not known.

"The Revenue can only apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused but would invite the practitioner to provide copies of those forms 64-8 that have not been processed to [named Revenue officials] under cover of a letter addressed to either of them personally and they will arrange for the necessary processing to take place."

The CIOT has now reported that the Revenue is to introduce a "short-term fix", to log 64-8s centrally, and has plans for "more radical longer-term improvements, to be announced shortly".

PAYE online
A Revenue official outlined the new processes to be introduced for filing of End of Year returns from April 2005. Further information is provided in a supplement to the Revenue's February 2005 Employers Bulletin.

Two matters that may give rise to some concern were explained by a Revenue official as follows:

  • "Rejection letters will be created automatically if the P35 cannot be processed correctly and therefore there will be an issue surrounding customer reactions as this is a departure from previous years. The drive however is to achieve greater consistency and efficiency in speed of process. Online, the forms will be checked automatically and returned instantly to the employer if failed.
  • "Problem when accountants offer e-filing service on behalf of clients for if employer authorises agent to act electronically, then all codings and communications will go to agents by internet and not to employers at all which will be an issue if the agents do not run the client's payroll. Agents will need to reset their client's markings to ensure that communications from the Revenue are not received by internet - again this is explained in the Feb edition of the Employers Bulletin."

Other concerns
Other matters raised included difficulties surrounding tax credit overpayments, access to call centres, and the printing of online PAYE notices of coding.

Andrew Goodall
Editor, TaxZone

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Replies (6)

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By AnonymousUser
15th Mar 2005 10:32

FBI2's
I agree with Simon, our experience so far with filing of FBI2's has been very poor - We have sent in 17 forms over the period 17 February to 8 March. When we log in we still have the message being displayed "Our records show you are not currently authorised to act online on behalf of any clients”. This is despite calls to the electronic help desk, faxing copies (as requested) to IR online services, an email complaining of the lack of response - which comically was bounced back to us by the Revenue's automatic reply service as "a specific tax query like yours...please contact your local Tax office" and finally a promise from one of the Revenue’s team saying that all info will be passed onto a team to investigate. Well, that made me feel a whole lot better I can tell you! Have I had a response? What do you think and whilst I am in complaint mode, we are still having trouble accessing email from the Revenue’s website, but it's OK as the automated answerphone states they are aware of this problem!

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By Robert Clubb
10th Mar 2005 12:11

Short-sighted Again!
Where do I begin??????

If the IR are really wanting us to move over the Internet Filing, then they must realise that the system will eventually need to be able to cope with significantly more Returns filed at the end of January than currently. Why not make the program capable of dealing with them now and make the experience a pleasurable one?

In forums such as this practitioners still using manual filing are hardly encouraged to make the change. Good news, (rather than bad news)travels fast. So, Inland Revenue, you will do more for your cause and the migration by getting your act together.

There is a problem with the processing of Forms FBI2 at Shipley (it's not done locally).

When will the IR realise that if they can't get the simples things right, then there is precious little change of us having any confidence at all?

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By briggs
10th Mar 2005 00:38

FBI 2 generated by software
I use QTac for my payroll and wsa very disappointed to find I could not print off FBI2's with standing data from the programme (With Self asessment, PTP does this for 64-8's),. This would have been a very useful feature and I was curious how other packages compared in this respect.

Any info ?

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By andyprentice
10th Mar 2005 11:26

Doh!
Rebecca - Thank you!

I had taken the FBI2 from the IR web-site - and hadn't looked at the cd-rom..........

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
09th Mar 2005 18:56

FBI 2 onscreen
Andrew, you need to load up your Employers' CD ROM for 2005 and look under Forms and Guidance for Onscreen forms. FBI 2 is there as an on screen PDF which you can complete, exactly as the Comapnies House forms. With any luck you can save and email to the client for printing and signature to speed up the process still further (haven't tested this though!)
I would mention that a number of my course delegates have said that processing of FBI2's has been a bit slow recently - understandable but I hope the Revenue allocate extra staff as there is a huge rush still to come!
Rebecca

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By andyprentice
09th Mar 2005 13:24

close the gap
The Revenue kindly provides a lovely form FBI2 authorising agents to act for employers. It's in pdf format. You just print it off and fill it in - by hand!

Companies House forms in pdf format are almost always capable of being filled in on screen then printed out - producing a much clearer form for Companies House and making it that little bit easier for us to fill in.

One more thing the Revenue could do to make life easier.

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