Microsoft launches Office Accounting 2008

Please can someone help?

With the help of an accountant who knows less than me, I have managed to put in a couple of inaccurate journal entries and bank accounts with the wrong name.

Plus the journal entries come up as created by 'Samsung' even though I have set up my company.

Because of Samsung as 'Owner', with administrative control, I cannot edit it or add other users (even though it says I can).

If I uninstall the software, will it allow me to start again or will it pick up the same errors again?

Even if I use a different laptop?

I need to find an accountant, preferably, in my neck of the woods (West Sussex) who actually knows the software. Any recommendations?

And someone who can train me.

Please can someone help. Am close to tearing my hair out.

Euphrosene

PS Have not yet uninstalled the software

A client's using this, and now wants his opening balances putting on.

The easy way would be to send him a csv file (like in sage) which he can import into the accounting package.

The hard way is for us to drive over there (100+miles), tap away at his screen for half a day, and hand him a large bill for the privilege - and the accountant version doesn't really resolve this - you still have to tap away at the screen for half a day.

I can see how to import a new account, with an opening balance, sales, purchases etc, but I can't see a straight forwards journal entry import.

Any clues?

Thanks.

The UK website says it's free for 60 days not permanently free.

The best address to download the free express version is: http://www.msofficeaccounting.co.uk/Express.aspx

Does anyone know whether Microsoft will be launching an online version of this software or anything similar i.e. the ability to run accounts via SaaS-type applications, accessible via (perhaps) a web browser.

The advantages of such a service are that (i) clients & their advisers can access the same data-set, without the need to send copies back & forth; (ii) data is backed up on a secure server by default; (iii) pricing is on a monthly or annual renewal (rental) basis, rather than a one-off purchase price. Mamut offer such a service, but I don't know of any other providers yet offering this useful service.

1. All of the versions of this application will noticeably SLOW down your PC. Even if you remove the software your PC will remain slow.

2. The FREE version is only single user - It wont network!

3. Its a badly organised application and not intuitive.

4. Within minutes of starting to use it your desktop will be a mass of pop windows.

5. See for yourself, the online forums are littered with dissatisfied users

I attended the software developer's launch of this product yesterday and can answer some of the questions.

Bob, To find the chart of accounts go to the Company section and choose 'Find' chart of accounts. you can add a new account by choosing New Account from the list of tasks above this.

Charlie, There are no plans currently to launch an online version in the near future.

NotImpressed. What do you want for a free piece of software!! The multi-user facility is available in the Professional version and that's only £150. Not sure how you are seeing a mass of pop-up windows - most of the work is carried out in A pop-up window which closes when you have completed that task. Finally 2 million downloads so far in the US does not seem to me to be a mass of 'dissatisfied users'.

P.S. I am an independent Software Developer, Sage registered. I do not work for MS and went yesterday somewhat sceptical. However having seen the product I would imagine it will give the other vendors something to think about. Anyone familiar with Office should find navigation and use fairly straightforwards.

You list three benefits on using an online system. I am sure that there are more that you haven't mentioned (ie automatic software upgrades), but I am unconvinced by the three listed benefits.

Ability for both parties to view live data is a benefit (assuming you are content to accept the intrinsic security weaknesses), but the transfer of data offline is in my experience barely noticeable as an irritant. Perhaps it is a bit like car ownership - you can do without it until you get one. More to the point, I can think of many cases where I would rather that only one party (between client and accountants) had rights to update the data at any given instant. When doing year end accounts the data only has to be transferred a couple of times, and you generally need access to the underlying records anyway, requiring physical delivery. That also applies when doing management accounting work albeit perhaps performed at client's premises for that reason.

The backing-up issue is also something of a fringe benefit. Perhaps useful for lazy clients, but even if using an offline system there really no excuse for data loss through backup failure.

And why is monthly rental intrinsically superior to outright purchase? I can see that based on the particular terms in a given case it MIGHT be, but I do not see that it is necessarily so. Indeed in virtually every other walk of life where there is a rental v purchase option, you pay more heavily for the rental in the long term.

For me, a critical downside to online accounting is that there is one more thing that might go wrong. How happy would you be if your Internet service was interrupted? I have made this point in other threads, which has been consistently ignored, perhaps because it cannot be refuted, by promoters of these services.

And if HMRC starts getting nosey, I would rather have control over what information is passed, where that control might be lost if they invoke powers under S.20(3) TMA 1970 (this is perhaps a minor objection).

The interface reminds me of an accounting application called Mamut. There might be a few problems with the product at present but I can see it being a real threat to vendors like Sage and Quick Books who have been able to dominate the SME software market in the UK for a long time by buying up the competition and discontinuing another competing product. There are however some very good open source products which are web based for SME's eg OpenBravo which will take a lot of beating in the future when it comes to Total Cost of Ownership. Anyone interested should go to the sourceforge web site and see how many excellent products are available in covering many different aspects of running a SME.

Clint - thank you. You make some good comments. The ability for accountant and client to access live data has most value to me on clients where the client (perhaps) raises his own sales invoices, but relies on me (the accountant) to enter purchase invoices, payroll, etc & prepare monthly management accounts. At the moment, those clients tend to use Word or Excel to raise their invoices, as the logistics preclude both of us working at the same time, when data sets need sending back & forth. Additionally, I have other clients who wish for limited access to live reports from various locations, without the need for a full license for the accounting product. Of course, in many (maybe even most) situations, as you point out, an offline product is much better suited.

Chris - can I presume from your post that you work for Pearl. If so, can I call the number on their web site & ask for you?

something to think about. M$ have the money to be disruptive if they are really interested in attacking the SME accounting market. If they wrap up accounting, BI and Office in an easily digestable package then it will be interesting times.

Clint

To try and field some your questions

a. Intrinsic security weakness - all systems have weaknesses of some form (i.e. desktops and USB downloads) so in this respect it is all about managing the risk. If you look at security breaches they will generally be because of human error and not necessarily system error. SSL, encryption, not retaining credit card info etc are ways to minimise the risk

b. Monthly rental - not intrinsically better per se. However in practice, this method of delivery allows for seamless ongoing upgrades to the software so the application is always up to date (app & data structure); this does not happen throughout the rental period with your video example

Now compare this approach to the Sage update cycle; how many accountants have Version 8 (or earlier) right up to version 13 to accommodate their clients - possibly 5 versions of the same product to service their clients

c. Critical downside (one more thing that might go wrong) - service interruption is a valid concern however, it can occur with any type of service (i.e. electricity). The problem with an argument of this nature is that without any hard facts the abstract nature of the concern is difficult to counter and is not specific to SaaS systems. (i.e. what happens if you have a power cut?)

To backup such concerns, researched figures really need to be provided for the following:
- incidence of this type of failure
- duration of failure
- impact - downtime in the middle of the night when not being used is different from peak time

In any event service interruption takes many forms - for example
- if the lines or ISP are at fault, then any other line can probably solve the problem
- if the SaaS provider is at fault there is little one can do about that but the same can be said for suppliers of desktop software (i.e. IRIS - freeware payroll last year) ..and so on ...

On the plus side anything delivered via the browser is less likely to be susceptible to operating system changes such as Vista - so you do not need to buy a special version to upgrade to the new OS. Futhermore , they are also likely to be platform independant (Mac/Pc)

Anyone remember Lotus spreadsheets?

Alan Wright
MD - Libery Accounts

Accounting Software Online From Liberty Accounts
alan.wright@libertyaccounts.com

...to watch how folk are picking this apart and then parsing the conversation through to SaaS.

Microsoft has got 2 issues here - getting end users capable of using an accounting package - we all know what THAT entails and making sure that the professional community is on board because that's where the influence lays. Assuming that clients will come rushing in with a copy of this tucked under their arm is a little premature.

In the meantime, those who are looking at the value in the online world will know that free is a viable business model option providing the required volumes can be achieved. I'm less sure about open source though I know those who swear by it.

Alastair is right - they could give the whole kit and kaboodle away but it isn't enough in and of itself. The community effort is where the action needs to be seen.

More here

I agree that most accountants do not like change however I believe the shift to Microsoft Accounting will come from their clients who are looking for familiarity and economic benefit and Microsoft Accounting offers both. The companies like Sage , Quickbooks , IRIS have in my view not been innovat ive enough with their SME accounting products like intoducing a web based product with a scalable database.

"But what about those who need to grow beyond the Microsoft package? Do
you really expect them to upgrade to Dynamics? (Did anyone ever upgrade
from Sage Line 50 to Line 100?) I reckon many businesses who outgrow MS
Office Accounting will be prime targets for Sage 50 and the like."

I presume you've not seen the soon-to-be-launched cut down version of Dynamics NAV that also includes Office integration. That's a seriously useful combination. Fact is MSFT has been winning business from Sage for the last 2-3 years, especially in the upgrade cycle from Line 50.

Nigel, have you really spent time reviewing this software?

Could you tell me in the free Express version, how to:
Enter Cash Payments.
Enter a Cash Receipts.
Enter Journals.

You would expect any Accounting program regardless of cost to perform these 3 basic tasks.

Not MS Accounting Express, unless you know otherwise.

Simon:

1. Cash Payments are under Banking/Enter Payment/Cash Payments

2. Cash Receipts are under Banking/Batch Cash Receipts

3. Journals are under Company/Find(Left Hand side of screen)/Journal Entries

Roy Thompson

Thanks for your reply Roy, however you must be referring to the professional version of the program. The express version doesn't have these facilities.

Simon

In Express:

For Journals: use the menu bar and choose Company|New Journal Entry

For Cash Receipts: Use the menu bar Banking|Make Deposit

For Cash Payments: Use the menu Bar Suppliers|New|Cash Purchase

Hope this is useful

Roy Thompson

The forum proves the point!

So the Help is obviously not helpful and the software not very intuitive. Its telling when folks have to resort to forums like this to get answers.

One of the good things about this application is that it is aimed at Sage. They really need a wake up call, they have been mystifying people who just want to run their businesses without the need for expensive accountants for years. Its time for change!

To Microsoft's credit they havent grafted a sexy user interface onto a 1970's application.

But at the end of the day Microsoft want to sell operating systems, which obviously sells new PCs. This software is slow which means you eventually need to buy a new _ _ ....work it out for yourself.

Is this why one version is free and the other ridiculously cheap at 149?

Watch Sage's prices and share prices tumble and then watch MS move in for the bargain. Its already begun. You probably saw the speculation a few weeks ago. Here's the evidence that someone is stalking Sage.

"CITIGROUP placed 46 million shares in Sage Group at 220p per share. The shares are estimated to represent 3.5 per cent of Sage's shares in issue. Shares in Sage were down 8.5p - or 3.8 per cent - at 216.5p"

Lets hope it happens -

Thank you for your reply. I can now see where the Journal Entry function is.

For Cash Receipts: The menu bar Banking|Make Deposit is only for Bank Deposits. How do you make a Cash Deposit to the Cash a/c.

For Cash Payments: The menu Bar Suppliers|New|Cash Purchase is for Cash Purchases from a Supplier only. How do you make a Cash Payment to a non supplier i.e. for petrol.

Simon

1. I am assuming that you are receiving cash from a customer. In which case you would pay the money into a bank account and then do a transfer to the cash account. Alternatively, I guess there is no reason why you could not set up a bank account called Cash. Or am I misunderstanding you?

2. All Payments have to have a supplier.I would set up a supplier called 'Miscellaneous Purchases' and use that.

Roy

Many Cash Traders (i.e. Pubs/Shops) would not pay all their takings into the bank, but pay out Petty Cash payments first. The Cash Takings still need to be recorded in their accounts as ‘Cash Takings’ and money paid to the bank as ‘Cash Banked’. Setting up a bank a/c called cash may well be possible, but this is a simple free accounting program for SME’s and that’s not inspiring them with confidence in the system.
All payments needing a supplier is a nonsense, creating twice as many entries, supplier invoice & supplier payment. Again this is supposed to be a simple free version of a bigger program. No Cash Payments = no market for the product.

I do appreciate your comments and indeed you have come up with a solution for all my questions in a round about way. Its like saying don’t worry if all your forward gears on your car are broken, you still have reverse, drive it backwards. I fail to understand why you defend this product as you do, unless you are associated with Microsoft. You can’t believe this is an acceptable Accounting Program. This is Microsoft not TinPot Co plc.

This is the free Express version of the product, it should have the basics i.e. Cash Payments/Cash Receipts. If necessary block the Sales or Purchase ledgers for example and make people upgrade if they require the ledgers. Quickbooks have a product for small business for circa £40 but it has no Purchase ledger, you have to upgrade to get the ledger. It does all the basics well, that makes perfect sense.

First let me say that I do not believe that I have defended this product.

I was merely trying to assist you with some queries that you had.

Any criticism of the product should be aimed at Microsoft not me.

Go to http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.uk.moa where you will be able to make your criticisms heard as Microsoft staff monitor user comments.

Second, I guess my feelings are that whilst the product has its faults so do many of the alternatives. I have worked with Sage for many years and I have often found users critical of why the product cannot do X. (As a developer my job is to make the product do X for them.) At the end of the day any company should look at what is on offer and choose the right product for their business. If Office Accounting does not suit there are plenty of alternatives

Finally, I repeat from my earlier postings I have absolutely no connections with Microsoft whatsoever.

Roy Thompson

Simon, your comments express quite valid concerns, as a product at this level does indeed need to cater to small businesses that often have cash purchases & sales. However, your criticisms suggest that you perhaps mis-understand the need for a 'supplier' and the function of a 'cash' account in accounting software.

I should point out that I have not yet used this new Microsoft product, so my comments are based upon what I have seen from Microsoft’s web site and in the main review above, and from my long experience of using many accounting software products over many years. I also have no connection with Microsoft or any other software supplier.

All purchases are bought from a supplier by definition. Whether that 'supplier' is a business from whom you make regular large purchases on credit, or it is the bloke selling the daily newspaper for £1 in cash from a stall outside the railway station, both are suppliers. Quite clearly it is unnecessary to specify the name of the newspaper seller (or indeed the petrol station that you cited) in the accounts, but you do need to tell the system that you have bought your petrol or newspaper from someone. You can, as has been suggested by others, use a generic name for suppliers that don't need to be individually named, eg "Miscellaneous Purchases" or simply "Misc" or "Sundry" which are much quicker to type. If speed is of the essence, you can even name it "X" for example. This takes virtually no time at all to type. You also say that “All payments needing a supplier is a nonsense, creating twice as many entries, supplier invoice & supplier payment” – if the software does indeed require the entry of a purchase invoice & then payment to clear it, I would agree with you; however, I believe that it allows the ‘invoice’ and ‘payment’ to be combined into one entry, in the same way it would be if one were to buy an item from a shop using a cheque at the time of purchase. No doubt someone will correct me if I’m wrong on this point.
....cont'd

continued from prev posting....

As for naming a bank account "cash", I cannot see any problem with that. Indeed, I cannot see an alternative to this, short of creating a type of account that operates in exactly the same way as a bank account but is called a 'cash account'. From an accounting perspective, a cash account is simply a bank account that is held on the premises, rather than on the High Street. As an accountant in practice, using various programs (QuickBooks, MYOB or even the awful, but ubiquitous, Sage), this is exactly how I set up cash accounts. For example, in QuickBooks, I name one of the nominal accounts "Cash" and set it as a “Bank” type of account (as opposed to a "Liability", or "Expense" or other type of nominal account). When spending petty cash, I write a "cheque" from the "Cash" account. Some of my less experienced smaller clients require a little coaching for them to understand that they can use "cheques" to spend cash, but after 5 minutes they've usually understood it. When banking cash, I either make a ‘transfer’ from the cash account to the ‘real’ bank account, or write a ‘cheque’ from the cash to bank account. I have run clients’ restaurant businesses’ cash transactions like this for many years, using a variety of different products.

I don’t believe that these are ‘roundabout’ solutions, requiring you to drive ‘backwards... in reverse gear’. Thye simply require the user to use one word (bank) for multiple functions (bank or cash). It might, indeed, be a nice touch were the programmers to create specific cash buttons, duplicating all of the ‘bank’ functions, just with different names for simplicity, and I would encourage them to do this to help the smaller business owner unused to accounting but, in my opinion, this would be a very low priority.