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ONLINE SOFTWARE REVIEW: Marginz. By Nigel Harris

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14th May 2006
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Marginz is another online accounting package that claims to unite the client managing their business and the accountant supporting the client. Indeed, it claims to be the ONLY true online real-time accounting system. (This claim has been disputed by rival companies. See comments below - Ed.)

It certainly offers all the advantages of a hosted online service, with secure 128-bit SSL security, full data backups, invisible maintenance and upgrades, and, of course, instant access from any PC with access to the internet.

Marginz is certainly comprehensive ' unlike most bookkeeping packages, Marginz even (rather scarily) produces a set of 'statutory company accounts'! Whilst these are well presented, they do lack quite a few essential current Companies Act and accounting standard disclosures (and there are no abbreviated accounts). Enabling clients to prepare their own statutory accounts, badly at that, is probably something that few accountants would be happy with. For me, this feature alone would rule out Marginz unless it could be disabled by the accountant.

The presentation of final and management accounts is very good, but in contrast the TB and some other reports appear in a rather chunky HTML table. The alternative output to CSV just dumps the same raw data into a bare spreadsheet, so isn't much better. I'm assuming this part of the program is still a work in progress as it looks a little inconsistent with the rest of the output.

Marginz comprises 13 modules:

  • Customers and sales
  • Invoicing
  • Nominal ledger
  • Products
  • Suppliers and purchases
  • Reports
  • Reporting operations ' allows you to use Marginz Data Tags, units of information based on the database tables, to build your own custom reports
  • Financials
  • Banking
  • Tools, including facility to upload any files into a secure online store for later retrieval by the business or the accountant
  • Fixed assets
  • Business details
  • Security

Online help is excellent, comprehensive and well laid out with screen shots and step by step guides.

Data entry is straightforward, from posting a transaction or journal to reconciling the bank account. Shame about the US date format on the main screens and lookup boxes, although reports themselves show dates in UK format.

Marginz includes VAT reporting, which has a basic control in that transactions shown on a Return can be 'reconciled' to avoid them being included on a later return, although there is nothing to remind or force the user to do so.

A single-user licence costs £29.95 + VAT for one year's subscription for the Marginz combined Internal Management Accounts Application, Secure Document Retrieval/Storage Facility, and Full statutory Accounts Production together with Online Help & FAQ's, plus free 30 day telephone support.

However, the partnership programme allows firms to offer Marginz to their clients. They can manage their clients and client data using a Back Office Application, which provides the functionality to manage clients and the Front End Application, the online accounting application that they and their clients use. It means that firms can allow clients to do as much or as little of the data entry themselves, and then pick up the rest of the work and finish off, say, VAT returns or management accounts. Clients can always open up Marginz in any web browser and view their accounts in real time.

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Replies (24)

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Nigel Harris
By Nigel Harris
11th Jul 2006 19:45

Just quoting them!
Perhaps I ought to apologise, but the fact is that the commentators have jumped on the first paragraph of my review without clicking on the link to check what Marginz actually says.

I was simply quoting the Marginz home page, which states:
"We provide the only UK and European realtime online accounting system for the accountancy service sector." Did I say I agreed? I think the substance of this and my other reviews demonstrates that this claim is manifestly untrue.

I was hoping to spark a slightly more constuctive debate on SaaS!

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By david_terrar
16th Jul 2006 13:29

More constructive debate and the On Demand page
Hi Nigel,
Actually it would have been a more constructive debate if someone from Marginz had posted to explain their claims in their collateral (which several of us believe to be incorrect). I wonder if they are listening?

Hi John,
The AW On Demand page is great, but it would be even better if it had Nigel's round up review, and all the other reviews he did beyond Marginz on there too.

David Terrar
Mailto:[email protected]
web: http://www.d2c.org.uk and http://www.twinfield.com
blog: http://biztwozero.com

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
16th Jul 2006 16:00

Ok but...
Nigel - If you're being paid to produce copy then as a reader, I'd expect elemental fact checking somewhere along the line. Most software vendors make silly inflated claims. Failing to validate those claims is pretty fundamental. If they're untrue as is clearly the case then that should be stated - in my opinion. It's certainly not something I'd see as a debating point.

But then we all make mistakes. As long as they're aqcknowledged then I don't think anyone has an axe to grind.

Unfortunately, we now live in a real-time world where there's always someone who knows more and who's getting information faster than we think. That makes the fact check element even more imperative. In my opinion.

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By User deleted
22nd May 2006 11:29

SaaS
I agree with Alistair on the browser issue. These issues generate about 80 % of our "bugs" and live support issues. I also agree with him about web 2.0 etc. we are in the business to provide a good service to as many clients as possible. Any cutting "edge" stuff is good for marketing, but may not be so good for clients, because their setup may not be able to support these technologies yet.

John, I read your words, but ......

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
22nd May 2006 12:39

Hardly a defence
Interesting comments John but I'm sure you'd agree other vendors can hardly be blamed for jumping up and down when it is apparent the most basic fact checking was not undertaken. That's a legitimate concern.

As an aside, I'd certainly be interested in knowing on what basis comparisons will be drawn. Especially as practices I'm speaking with carry multiple solutions for different client groups. I sure hope your reviewer doesn't fall into the 'one size fits all' trap.

Time to move one.

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
19th May 2006 23:09

Supporting browser
Alastair - thanks for that. Your comments reflect why when I meet so-called Web 2.0 and on-demand companies that I ask these questions. You can bootstrap so far (and that's a good thing for conserving resources) but then what?

As an aside - one of the reasons the non-IE browsers are becoming more popular is they don't usually 'break' online apps. Developers have to do a lot of IE testing to get over that hump.

I should say that browser religion works both ways. A significant number of recent offerings have been cross platform Firefox only. It's a risk/reward thing. BTW - FF isn't perfect.

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
21st May 2006 19:01

There is no conspiracy against SaaS vendors on Aweb
Gentlemen,

As usual thanks for your stimulating contributions to our Marginz review, which we have taken on boad. I also note the comments from Alan and Alistair that most of the contributions are coming from industry insiders rather than practicing accountants or potential business users. I hope our continuing coverage will help to shift this conversational dynamic to more constructive territory about the whys and hows of SaaS and the tangible benefits for users who embrace this new way of working.

In the meantime, I need to state very clearly that we have not neglected software as a service on AccountingWEB. We dedicated a special supplement to it last year and have now compiled our content on the Software on demand page.

Nigel has taken an interest in the subject for some time and is currently working his way around the known universe - which can be difficult when the field is expanding so rapidly. The whole point of the exercise is to get to the point where we can publish a comparative survey based on his reviews - precisely has Alastair has suggested.

May I also point out in our defence that we make it very clear that Marginz "claims" to be the only real time online accounting solution. Perhaps it was an error of judgement to include this claim, as it is the kind of irrelevant nonsense that always seems to possess software marketeers. Since when in this business has it ever mattered about being the first into the market? Anybody ever remember a company called Netscape?

John Stokdyk
Technology editor
AccountingWEB.co.uk

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
19th May 2006 17:35

Here's why it matters
While non Micorosft browsers are in the minority, they represent an increasingly important part of the IT landscape. In my case 45% of visitors to my site use non-IE software. this week I was asked by 3 differrent people to recommend accounting software for the Mac. I reocmmended a service I know runs in 98% of environments.

So...the minute you say 'I only support XX browser, you're automatically excluding part of the market. That potentially takes on greater importance as the Intel/Windows powered Macs become more prevalent, as they are expected to do so over the next year. There is plenty of validation for this point of view from people who are much closer to these things than I.

Then there is the question of platforms themselves. Mac pretty much does all of what Windows Vista WILL do. Validation for thst comes from a vaorety of sources. Mac OSX is a more secure environment - largely because until recently, there were no Mac viruses out in the wild. The fact that's changed signifies to me there is enough interest in that platform to make hacking it worthwhile.

Finally there are alternative operating systems. I've recently seen Internet ready server setups where the operating systems is a Unix derivative but stripped back to avoid complexity. Theres' no way of telling wehter such ideas will flourish - - just as there is no real way to tell whether takeup of windows Vista will be dramatic or treacly slow.

The net-net is that without x-platforms support you simply cannot say you'll be able to reach all the market, all the time. This is especially important for browsers which, by their very nature, should be capable of providing a similar experience, regardles of the machine on which it sits. So again, what happens if you're in another part of the country and need access to records? What happens if you're at a customer's office to whom you've provided secure access with which they can interrogate their purchaser ledger account entries yet they are running some hand built UNIX box? It happens.

And it is important overall because on-demand is a 24x7 business. It is not the same as desktop by any stretch. Or if it is then it's JAAA (Just Another Accounting App)

Having said that, I understand when developers - like Liberty - draw a line and say we support IE + Firefox natively on Windows but that there *may* be issues with other environments. Which is what Alan Wright confirmed to me this afternoon (apologies to Alan for the context and association -my bad.)

This discussion has an important context which, if ignored, nullifies the value of on-demand to the most important person - the client.

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By listerramjet
19th May 2006 22:16

browser support
OK, so you are a smallish player with a small budget. Do you put your efforts into supporting 1 or 2 browsers and go for functionality development, or do you put your efforts into less functionality and support for all (most) of the current known major browsers?

Do you worry about web 2.0 - do you loose sleep over web 3.0? or do you go for the lowest common denominator and get drunk every night?

it might be simpler than managing a small lan, but internet is not the free ride that some paint it to be. And the real problems are subtle. OK, you might get 24/7 access from anywhere in the world, but someone updates your browser and boom, it stops working. How on earth are you going to support that?

And by the way Dennis, you are spot on about why it matters.

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By User deleted
17th May 2006 18:56

Only online Accounting Software?
Hi David,

I think you are absolutely right about us being in this together. Remember the responses from accounting web to our numerous complaints about ignoring the SaaS market?

Well the sands are shifting, as accountants up and down the country learn about SaaS from us (Dennis, you, me and others, not from accounting web), the benefits become clear. We have now over 80 accountant partner firms supporting our product, add yours and we can see a trend.

Wonder what Marginz did to get this gig with AW.

One thing is for sure the SaaS issue has been ignored by AW as long as possible, why? And was this in the best interest of the the readers?

BTW, I just started a mini series of posts on my blog about the benefits of SaaS, the first one is here.

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By david_terrar
17th May 2006 16:51

Would Marginz like to reply?
Hi Stefan,
You are welcome - in my view we are in this together to get the (true) online accounting topic better known. I see you've managed to get even more references to your product and blog in than I did! I'd be interested in a comment from AW on what you say, but even more interested in someone from Marginz explaining why they claimed it in the first place.
David Terrar
Mailto:[email protected]
web: http://www.d2c.org.uk and http://www.twinfield.com
blog: http://biztwozero.com

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By david_terrar
17th May 2006 12:47

Marginz isn't the only true online accounting solution
Hi Nigel,
It's "interesting" that Marginz should claim to be the "only" true online, real-time accounting solution. That just isn't the case. Whereas there are some solutions that are client/server products that have been web enabled with Citrix or the like, there are products like Twinfield which have been architected as a web service from scratch, and designed for real-time accounting. I don’t know enough about Winweb, but I would expect they can legitimately say the same, and I'm sure there are others that will post to refute the Marginz claim. Twinfield has been growing steadily since 2000 and now has over 17,500 users. If you talk to any of them, they'll testify to the excellent performance and online, real-time capabilities. Maybe you can suggest that Marginz post a comment on this article to explain their claim.
David Terrar
Mailto:[email protected]
web: http://www.d2c.org.uk and http://www.twinfield.com
blog: http://biztwozero.com

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By User deleted
17th May 2006 16:03

Only Online Accounting Software?
David,

Thank you very much for mentioning us (WinWeb) and we are currently the only acredited online accounting software provider by the ICAEW.

Based on that and Twinfields history, how anyone else can claim to be the only "true" online accounting software vendor and for accountingweb to publish this, when they clearly should know better, is interesting.

But there you have it. I feel another post coming on The Small Business Blog .

BTW our single-user license is free for the client and the accountant, and so is 24x7 support!

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By listerramjet
19th May 2006 13:25

frustrations shared
Of course there is value in debate, but Alan Wright makes a valid point. This review was about a specific app, and the constant reference to other apps is not helpful, particularly since there is every intention for those to get a similar review.

However, perhaps AWeb might take up the gauntlet and produce a comparative review?

Dennis makes an interesting and important point about transparency and ownership - shame it was clouded by the obfustications! I am particularly confused by the apparent contradiction between "this is not just accounts over the internet" and "It doesn't work with any other browser than IE 5.x and up. Ergo it is NOT a true online app." Come on Dennis, please explain?

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
19th May 2006 10:55

Let me check
Last time I tied Liberty on the PowerBook I had problems using the Camino and Safari browsers but I will check this out and if I'm wrong I'll post an appropriate apology.

As to the 'tedious' plugging - in most cases I'd agree but as we're talking about a fresh way of computing that has enormouse ramifications for both clients and practitioners - this is not just accounts over the internet - then it helps to get a few things straight.

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By axw001
19th May 2006 08:34

Tedious Product Plugging
These comment areas are hugely devalued when they are mainly used by competitors or people related to them by sponsorship / affiliation etc. to plug their own products or cast aspersion on other products.

What's really interesting to me is how few comments or questions relating to online accounting are being posted by the practitioners reading the piece.

The basic need of accounting and bookkeeping functions to share data amongst multiple users makes online accounting a natural fit. A great deal of work needs to be done by the online providers to sell the very real benefits of networked applications that don't absorb IT management resources to both practitioners and business users.


Alan Wright

I declare an interest in Liberty Accounts

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By david_terrar
19th May 2006 06:03

Mac
Twinfield is supported on both Windows and Mac browsers. However, that's only part of the story. One "online" services based on a well known product has a multi-page guide telling you how to set up IE to make it work, and I know of several people who have failed even following technical support from the service provider. So far Twinfield has worked first time with no adjustment on every different PC or Mac I've come across in the last 9 months.

I'm still wondering why no-one from Marginz has responded, or explained why their technology is the only true online product.
David Terrar
Mailto:[email protected]
web: http://www.d2c.org.uk and http://www.twinfield.com
blog: http://biztwozero.com

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By AnonymousUser
18th May 2006 18:40

Who is going to be first with ebdex Document Exchange?
Does it really matter who brought the first on-line account system to the market? Are you able to make enough impact to change the traditional licensing model? I think this is what the debate should be!

We are speaking to one of the on-line accounting systems to increase their competitive advantage by giving their clients the ability to exchange documents with their suppliers and customers, irrespective of the system their trading partners use. This will certainly increase their competitive advantage.

If others would like to follow same, please do get in touch with me.

Best regards
Manoj Ranaweera
mailto: [email protected]
website: http://www.ebdex.co.uk
Blog: http://manojranaweera.blogspot.com/

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
18th May 2006 23:06

How did you manage to do a review?
Nigel: When I click on what I think is the right link, it's dead. When I click on the demo link, it sends an email message. So it looks flaky for sign up.

And it doesn't support Mac - stupid. Maybe I'll find a way of getting to it through my old PC - watch this space!

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By axw001
18th May 2006 16:58

Support for ALL environments
"BTW - neither Liberty nor Marginz support all environments. Bad." - Dennis Howlett

Some online products restrict their compatability to a specific browser, often Microsoft IE.

I cannot speak for Marginz but Liberty Accounts is most definitely NOT an IE only product. We have users using Liberty Accounts on a variety of operating systems, including Macs, linux, and Unix, and using a variety of browsers. We work hard to make our product function in browsers that support open standards and we do not use activeX or java applets.

Dennis Howlett's comment is only true in as much as no sane online provider would claim to support --ALL-- environments, So forgive me if I take umbrage at the tag of "Bad" at the end of this poorly qualified statement.

I am involved in the development of Liberty Accounts.

Alan Wright

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By woodgate1
19th May 2006 10:26

Twinfield
I am a user of Twinfield and I'm particularly impressed with how easy it is to access the system. I have made a point over the last few months of using any and every PC I can find to log on. I have never had a problem in accessing the system or with the speed the system operates.

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
18th May 2006 16:13

Does Nigel understand?
Nigel - the others have said enough to be going on with apart form one major error you've not acknowledged. Maqrginz is NOT the only online offering by a country mile. Such spurious claims remind me of the 'we solve world peace' claims of the 1990s. If that's their pitch - it sucks.

BTW - neither Liberty nor Marginz support all environments. Bad.

Where are they? Did you speak to them? Who's backing them? Are they adequately funded? Got any users to talk with?

Stefan - I wouldn't worry about AW missing you out - we've got Zoli!!!!

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Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
18th May 2006 23:18

It isn't a 'true' online app
It doesn't work with any other browser than IE 5.x and up. Ergo it is NOT a true online app. I think Nigel misquoted them - they say "...online service for the accountancy industry." But even that's wrong.

Also, the outsourced affiliate (in the UK) website doesn't exist. The website for the outsourcer shows a direct relationship with Marginz.

Marginz is a company connected to AccountancyGroup.com so all 4 companies are connected to one another. These little details are important.

See here for more details:

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Nigel Harris
By Nigel Harris
18th May 2006 13:13

I'm getting there - be patient
David and Stefan - don't worry, I'll get to you shortly. I am ticking off the online accounting packages roughly alphabetically, so you'll get your fair coverage over the coming weeks.

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