Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.
AIA

Software Review: More. By Nigel Harris

by
14th Sep 2006
Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.

Whenever AccountingWEB reviews small business accounting packages, we usually get requests from the band of loyal More users for a review of this application. With version 5 due for release later this year, this seems like an ideal opportunity to do so.

If you haven't come across More before, don't worry. You can't buy it online or from PC World ' in fact you can't buy it at all. It is only distributed by accountants who have agreed to make the software available for free. I spent an hour or so in an online demonstration of More with founder Bob Harper, who explained the More philosophy.

Harper said More is all about the client-accountant relationship, NOT about bookkeeping. The software is a tool to train and enable clients to keep basic but totally accurate accounting records, using these to build a bridge with an accountant who can offer pro-actrive management accounting and tax budgeting and planning advice.

Like Version 4 there are two modules of the More software: one for clients and one for accountants. Updates are issued online so all users are using the latest version. The client module is under the control of the accountant and all functionality can be switched on and off so the user only has the features they want and will use. In fact the end user licence for the software is between the accountant and the client. Videos and a built-in example business for users to train on ensure the client uses the system correctly.

A unique feature is that new users have to complete three months' records (month one is already completed) for the demo training business to show they can complete bank reconciliations before they can use the system! Bob boasts that their client base includes farmers who do their own monthly bank reconciliations.

Although currently a desktop application, there is an online aspect as data is exchanged between the two systems using More Webmail. This facility lets clients send regular back-ups of their bookkeeping to their accountant. The accountant's online management console tracks the data exchange so they know which clients are doing their books and which need some nagging. The console also allows accountants to issue licenses, log support requests and track what VAT returns and year-ends are due. Automatic reminders are planned for a future release.

The software interface is clean and uncluttered and designed for non-bookkeepers. Menu options have been simplified and streamlined so the user can see exactly what to do and where to go. It uses a columnar layout similar to manual or spreadsheet systems. Data entry is made easier by prompts, automatic field filling-in and drop-down lists. Simple bank and cash control screens with video guidance ensure clients verify their own data.

The integrity of VAT data is ensured by locking down completed returns. However, missed transactions can be included and are automatically carried forward to the next VAT return. Version 5 addresses a major weakness of V 4 in that it handles both invoice and cash accounting for VAT, which will open it up to a far wider range of businesses.

I am a big fan of 'dashboards' and am pleased to see that version 5 introduces a dashboard or home page giving essential, non-technical business management data:

  • a pie chart giving a snapshot of the cash position,
  • a profit and loss bar chart, and
  • a line graph comparing cashflow and profit/loss.

The reporting section is quite adequate, especially as the accountant will be providing and explaining management figures. For clients, the built-in reports focus on tracking Money In and Money Out and Profit and Loss. For accountants there is a Trial Balance and a Data Dump designed to be exported to Excel for pivot table analysis. Bob demonstrated the latter and it is both simple to use and an extremely powerful tool.

Because users are forced to balance and reconcile their books, More reckons that accountants should be able to produce management accounts in an hour and a half, and year end accounts in a maximum of three hours.

Because users are forced to balance and reconcile their books, More reckons that accountants should be able to produce management accounts in an hour and a half, and year end accounts in a maximum of three hours.

Conclusion
As its name suggests, this system offers "more" than a typical small business bookkeeping program, so comparisons with other packages seem inappropriate. The software itself is sound, well designed and does what small businesses require. The flexibility to activate or suppress individual features is very useful. Most importantly More provides a controlled framework within which business owners are helped to do what accountants have always wanted them to do!

It will not be for everyone, as the software forces user firms to change the way they deal with small business clients. But if you are willing to embrace More's innovative approach, you will be well equipped to offer business development and added value services to businesses which traditionally spend their entire accountancy budget on admin and compliance work - including collating carrier bags full of unsorted paperwork, or trying to reconcile unreconciled cash books.

For firms willing to make this sort of change, More offers them a low-cost, pre-packaged solution. The company also has a link with MIS, an outsourcing specialist in India, that can produce final accounts from a More data file in the firm's own format (IRIS, Viztopia, Sage SAP/SAPA and so on) within 14 days for a flat fee of just £50 ' leaving the accountant to do the higher fee tax, advisory and client relationship work.

The More pricing structure is based on an initial £300 fee to cover training and marketing, and the software then costs £30 per client per year, which is absorbed in the annual accountancy fees. Over the next couple of years, the developer is looking to build a network of 800-900 firms each covering exclusive territories across the UK. So accountants interested in adopting this new approach should contact More sooner rather than later.

Tags:

Replies (11)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By User deleted
14th Sep 2006 13:25

.
We had a demo of More about 18 months or so ago, we didn’t go with them because they had no ledger system and only dealt with ‘cash accounting’ for VAT purposes at the time, having said that it was/is a nice product, the built in ‘how to’ videos are a fantastic touch.

The link up with MIS in India for a flat fee of £50 will I am sure attract a lot of accountants who are either suffering with recruitment or growth due to a lack of resources, nice little add on Bob!

It’s pricing structure is starting to look a bit heavy though, as it is aimed at small clients then that means they will invariably be dealt with by smaller accountants (small in practice size not height before anyone says anything :-)) with an initial £300 (plus vat I assume) then no doubt a commitment to buy X number per year on top of that.

As I understand it you get a territory (post code), and if you get a client out of that territory you have to pass that to the accountant in that area or something really odd, I may have misunderstood this part, but if I haven’t then that is a really bad idea.

I wonder Nigel, do you think More has such a bright future in view of the current move towards online (hosted or SaaS offerings)?

Now if More went online (whether hosted or SaaS)!

Jason
Holden Associates
The Small Business Blog
sbqaforum

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
15th Sep 2006 16:03

Thanks Jason, fair point. Apologies if I misunderstood your comment. I note that More has a very loyal following in the small/one-man practice sector.

I would still maintain that More could have a valuable role in even a larger firm though, enabling them to service the small business sectore cost-effectively when otherwise they might have considered moving out of that end of the market altogether.

However, I was starting out from scratch today I would seriously consider adopting a SaaS solution from the outset.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
15th Sep 2006 13:39

.
Hi Nigel,

My pricing comment was not directed at the cost benefits or lack thereof for the larger firm or a small firm that is growing or trying to grow into something larger, it was directed towards the small firm that is happy to remain so, or the new start up practice, which I happen to think More is ideal for. I think you took my point a little out of context, or maybe I should have been more specific.

Jason
Holden Associates
The Small Business Blog
sbqaforum

P.S. They say manners cost nothing, yet it would appear even that is too expensive for some on AWeb these days.

Thanks (0)
Nigel Harris
By Nigel Harris
15th Sep 2006 13:22

Good manners cost nothing
I note an increasing level of rude and offensive postings on AW these days from anonymous readers ... oh well. Just proves we don't believe in censorship.

jc clearly didn't read my previous Online Accounting reviews, summarised here.

The rest of jc's rant doesn't logically follow from my comment anyway! The point I was trying to make was that SaaS needs a push from companies with big marketing budgets to get general awareness. There are some excellent online products (see my reviews!) which most finance professionals have never heard of, and probably never will unless they go out looking for them (or read AW!).

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
15th Sep 2006 12:49

Disappointing comment .....
The following phrase says it all .....

'.. I don't expect to see small businesses (or their advisers)rushing to sign up to SaaS accounting systems - at least not until Sage and Intuit make it the industry norm! ..'

Basically it doesn't matter how inferior or bad the product is (or whether it even exists) provided it is badged with Sage or Intuit - only then will some in the profession grant it any credence.

This statement effectively demonstrates a closed mind to all other suppliers and may actually be a detrimental to clients interests

By all means make a reasoned judgement based on comparison; but to make a statement such as the one above on an unknown product which is currently vapourware (doesn't exist) is quite frankly disappointing

So much for independance and impartiality - judging products on their merits !!!!!!!!!!

As a potential client one would be very reluctant to seek advice from anyone making such a sweeping statement

Furthermore it does call into question the authors credibity on any utterance - either historically or in the future

Thanks (0)
John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
18th Sep 2006 11:35

Sage "spin" etc
JC, now you've upset the rest of the editorial team. AccountingWEB is an independent website serving over 90,000 members. Our editorial mission is to serve our members' interests and we make no apology for writing about Sage products so often, because they are used by at least 50-60% of our readers. You only have to look at the traffic figures on many of the Sage stories to understand this. It's aslo why we dedicate so much content to spreadsheets.

While we are extremely interested in developments in the SaaSspace - see Nigel's recent reviews - we do not see our position as having to act as evangelists for this new style of application.

Nigel's comment about SaaS not really taking off until the big vendors buy in is entirely apt, since it reflects the current reality of the marketplace. I've had an online application supplier tell me the same thing.

We may not always cover the fringes as well as we like, but I find it mildly ironic that you slate us for Sage spin in a comment on a review of More's system.

This comment is merely a defence of our editorial policy rather than a major broadside. Even if the comments do occasionally get a little barbed, keep engaging in the debate - this is precisely the mechanism through which both the editorial team and AccountingWEB members find out about new developments.

Regards,
John Stokdyk
Technology editor
AccountingWEB.co.uk

Thanks (0)
avatar
By david_terrar
18th Sep 2006 17:57

JC has a point
John,
I think you've missed the last point JC was trying to make, which is that you give Sage too easy a ride and never really challenge them. I have no problem with the quantity of coverage you give them, as befits the market leader, or the coverage you give SAP and B1.

Like JC I'm mightily frustrated that there are many conservative practices adopting a wait and see attitude until Sage brings something out. However, it is very heartening to hear Nigel, who has given all of the SaaS solutions a thorough test drive, say that he would adopt a SaaS solution if he was starting a practice from scratch today.

And by the way, I'm sure More is a very good solution, and I hope to share a platform with them in the not too distant future at a "new technology for accountants" event we are planning. Hopefully with a bit of judicious marketing, and AW help we'll spread the word so that more get to hear of us both.
David Terrar
Mailto:[email protected]
web: http://www.d2c.org.uk and http://www.twinfield.com
blog: http://biztwozero.com

p.s. I think I know who jc is....

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
18th Sep 2006 20:06

Horses for courses
I’d like to make a comment about MORE and the wider debate about the SaaS model.

MORE has been designed to facilitate better relationships between accountants and their small business clients. A major part of this is giving the accountant and client the capability to exchange financial information more effectively. The reason for doing this is so that accountants can be more proactive, especially with things like tax planning and tax forecasting.

At the moment every firm of accountants I know uses offline accounts production and tax return software. This means that it doesn’t matter if the client uses offline or online bookkeeping/accounting software; there is still a data transfer issue before the accountant can complete the tax work.

So, (as always) the only worthwhile question is what’s right for clients?

It is here that I believe a range of solutions are needed. One size doesn’t fit all and I think an online accounting system should be part of an accountant’s range of supported solutions.

But, this review is considering start-ups and businesses with less than five employees. These tend to have a single office (often based at home) and have no need or desire for remote access.

Interestingly, it has been suggested to us that being an online solution (at the moment) could be seen by some as restrictive because business owners are not always online when the do their bookkeeping.

One firm I spoke to deals with a lot of IT contractors and even they are not keen on online accounting. They want to do their bookkeeping on the train. I personally know a very successful physiotherapy business that has the bookkeeper who comes in to do the books but there is no Internet access. The business owner takes the laptop home and fires a back-up to the accountant. This is the reality of today, however, frustrating it is.

On a broader note, the SaaS model is built on the concept of third parties renting software and hardware to end users. This avoids the need for capital outlay. However, hardware is cheaper than ever before and you need a computer to get onto the Internet. If we started renting hardware to people that already have it that could turn a benefit into a cost.

Having said that, I think MORE is in the SaaS arena and as Nigel mentioned the new “home” tab does gives a clue to where we are going with the technology.

The difference with MORE is that the accountant is providing the software as part of their service rather than a software house.

For me the outcome is always more important that the technology. The outcome MORE guarantees is happy and profitable small business clients.

I do not yet see the major benefit in the SaaS model for accountants and small business clients but we have been looking at voice recognition data entry!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
19th Sep 2006 08:11

yes but ...
Robert
At the risk of offending yet another party

The concept of an acounting software franchise is an interesting one which seems to focus on the accountant 'selling/advising' their client about the product. Traditionally it has always been good news to get the accountants on board because they in turn can act as the sales force and their status ensures businesses will listen to them

I am not sure about your statement '..start-ups and businesses with less than five employees. These tend to have a single office (often based at home) and have no need or desire for remote access ..'. One of the issues with this type of small business is precisely the division between home/office and the need to have data readily available between the two - invariably transferred by floppy disk etc.

SaaS is not a universal palliative but then neither is any other software. Obviously if the basic infrastucture is lacking then it is a non-starter but these are probably becomming increasingly minority occurances

Agreed that SaaS is based upon a subscription model but the explanation of falling hardware costs only tells half the story. With a traditional desktop app what seems to have been ignored are the endless man hours upgrading, maintaining etc. of servers, pc's & infrastucture (TCO); the costs of which far outstrip the hardware cost. Also the 'backwards' compatability issue - i.e. could recent upgrades read files from 3/4 versions ago?

At some point we also need to address the issue of wi-fi enabled mobile phones (free data transfer) which are being blocked at the present time by the service providers (no guesses why!). Once wi-fi enabled mobiles are generally available then this opens a whole new communications area of no-cost mobile data transfer

Most of the current SaaS products were concieved a number of years ago (5+) by those having a 'clean slate' and their own 'vision' of the future market requirements. They were built from the ground up with SaaS, infrastucture, scaleability (x-tier), WebServices etc. in mind at the outset and invariable only target the browser delivery mechanism

With reference to comments about More being in the SaaS arena. I think that anything that has not been designed & build from the start with SaaS in mind should be very careful about claiming to be a SaaS offering either by migration or Citrix quick fix.

Once can easily understand the reluctance of existing desktop suppliers to move to SaaS because to achieve it properly is potentially an enormous cost, whereas they would prefer to extend the revenue from their existing products rather than develop new ones. Nevertheless like it or not SaaS is the future despite the prevailing guarded approach by many

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
15th Sep 2006 18:47

Rudness not meant ...
Nigel

Appologies it was not actually meant be be rude, although on re-reading the posting it I can see how it could be taken as such. Comes from failing to review what has been written quickly in a time-slot

I think the main issue is that everything is benchmarked against Sage etc. even when they do not have an equivalent offering. We also have a continous barrage from AW of Sage etc. in all flavours almost to the exclusion of other supplier - perhaps I am in the minority but this approach (Sage 'spin') is rather waring which may result in a 'rant'

I guess the acid test a quick spreadsheet identifying all suppliers covered by AW measured against a count of the times they are mentioned.

Again it is not made apparent the extent (if any) of support or advertising given to AW by the major suppliers. Even when these guys produce a questionnable product according to the AW review at the time the conclusion is invariably bland to good and never outright damning

The problem is that AW et al always seem to give the majors an easy ride - despite the fact that they have been in the market for 20+ years and by their own admission (frequent updates) they still haven't got it right

End of rant ...

PS I had already seen your previous article and did not engage because David & Dennis between them covered everything

Thanks (0)
Nigel Harris
By Nigel Harris
15th Sep 2006 10:48

Does what it says on the tin
More is certainly a great looking product, much less fussy and confusing for a new user.

On the pricing point, I do think that the attraction for a larger firm is that More enables them to retain their smaller clients in a controlled, manageable and very cost-effective way. The are the sort of clients that growing firms often struggle to retain as they seek to push up revenues. More allows them to keep clients (who are prepared to accept the More discipline), offer them a valuable service - AND still make money out of them. A £30 p.a. disbursement against each client is neither here nor there.

I notice that More has renamed the main screen the "Home" page, pehaps a clue that they are keeping an open mind about going online. Bob says he has no plans to do so for a few years, and frankly I don't expect to see small businesses (or their advisers)rushing to sign up to SaaS accounting systems - at least not until Sage and Intuit make it the industry norm! (I'm sure Dennis Howlett will disagree with me)

Thanks (0)