A friend of mine told me that he was in a greeting

Is it legal

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A friend of mine told me that he was in a greetings card shop in the West Country and was told he can only pay by card and they do not accept cash any more . Now we are all aware that the cost of banking cash is high and this would also stop any staff pilfering of money (if there was) and no doubt our chums at HMRC would be delighted. However i am not sure if this is lawful; to refuse to take the lawful currency . Anyone else any thoughts?

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By Tim Vane
16th Mar 2018 08:32

Yes it's lawful.
Cash is legal tender for any debt, but the shop has no obligation to sell you anything so if they don't want to sell to cash-only buyers that is their right.

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By johngroganjga
16th Mar 2018 09:01

A shop is under no legal obligation to sell anything to anyone, ever. So it can logically impose whatever conditions it sees fit, including the wearing of purple socks etc.

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Replying to johngroganjga:
By SteveHa
16th Mar 2018 09:18

Which creates a problem if they are the only purple sock shop and you don't already own any.

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Replying to johngroganjga:
By mrme89
16th Mar 2018 09:19

Is that strictly true? Surely a shop cannot refuse a customer based on a protected characteristic such as a disability?

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Replying to mrme89:
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By Cloudcounter
16th Mar 2018 09:42

When did wanting to pay in cash become a protected characteristic?

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By mrme89
16th Mar 2018 09:54

Read the comments properly.

John said that a shop can 'logically impose whatever conditions it sees fit' - but I was asking if that is strictly true if the reason for not serving a customer is because of a protected characteristic.
A B&B lost its case in the Supreme Court because they refused to allow a gay couple to stay, for example.

So I think my comment was relevant to John's comment, which is the one I replied to.

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Replying to mrme89:
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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 10:07

mrme89 wrote:

A B&B lost its case in the Supreme Court because they refused to allow a gay couple to stay, for example.

Don't forget the Gay Cake Icing case.

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Replying to mrme89:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
16th Mar 2018 15:23

mrme89 wrote:

Is that strictly true? Surely a shop cannot refuse a customer based on a protected characteristic such as a disability?

As you say, they are not allowed to impose conditions that would be a breach of a specific discrimination law.

I believe the Gay Cake case put two laws up against one another. The shop owners stated they were expressing their religious views (protected under law regardless of how others may view them) in refusing service.

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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 09:48

The whole legal tender thing is a nonsense.

Strictly, it only applies to court debts anyway but notes aren't legal tender in Scotland or Northern Ireland, nor are cheques or bank cards anywhere in the UK so if Tescos insisted on legal tender for your weekly shop in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you'd need to take a barrow-load of pound coins in.

Greetings cards ? Apart from a few boxes of Christmas cards once a year, I wouldn't dream of paying 29p for a greetings card by debit card. Nor, I imagine, would that exceed the card charge by a great deal.

It's a nice idea but we're a long way from the cashless society at the moment. When folk start walking out of the shop because they can't pay cash, I expect it'll be the shop owners who'll end up greeting.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Tim Vane
16th Mar 2018 10:22

But I think cash is dying slowly and many shops will soon stop to take it. The staff at the coffee kiosk in our local station always frown when I insist on paying cash - I would say the vast majority of their customers now pay via contactless card/mobile, which is just much more convenient when you are on the go. All the schools in our area have stopped taking cash for meals - it's all done by thumbprint. There will be a point within the next few years when many smaller businesses will stop taking cash and do everything electronically. MVD/MTD may well speed up this transition...

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Replying to Tim Vane:
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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 10:37

I wouldn't disagree that cash is less popular - nevertheless, I'm not expecting it to die before me.

If I've a £20 note in my pocket, I know I've got £20. If I've got a card, I don't know how much I've got. Could be ten bob, could be ten grand.

For small transactions, cash is still the most convenient method of payment.

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By andy.partridge
16th Mar 2018 10:44

My local University Campus goes cashless in a week's time. A captive customer base (almost literally, but Stockholm Syndrome applies).

No expectations of a protest especially as there are already picket lines over pensions theft.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By ms998
16th Mar 2018 11:47

Disagree. Want to buy something for £1, only got 50p on me. Now need to go to the cash machine (on a regular basis?) to get more cash. Alternative pay by card which is probably quicker once the shopkeeper has faffed about with change.

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Replying to ms998:
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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 12:04

What fool would go into a shop when they only had 50p ?

Sorry - coming up with outlandish examples doesn't prove anyone's point.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Portia Nina Levin
16th Mar 2018 12:16

lionofludesch wrote:

What fool would go into a shop when they only had 50p ?

One with a debit card>

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Duhamel
16th Mar 2018 13:20

This doesn't seem outlandish at all to me. If I want to go to the shop for a chocolate bar even, I expect to be able to pay by card. Even my pub no longer has a £10 limit on paying by cards.

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Replying to Duhamel:
By Ruddles
16th Mar 2018 13:33

Well, when you're charged £10.75 for a large G&T a £10 limit becomes rather academic :)

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By Duhamel
16th Mar 2018 13:42

Ruddles wrote:

Well, when you're charged £10.75 for a large G&T a £10 limit becomes rather academic :)

Large? For £10.75 I expect at least a pint's worth of G&T!

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By Chris Smail
16th Mar 2018 12:14

"Nor, I imagine, would that exceed the card charge by a great deal."

No such thing these days, just rental and a straight percentage of takings, so no reason not to accept smallest transactions by card.

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By adam.arca
16th Mar 2018 12:37

Agree with Lion here.

For those of us brought up with "thrift" in mind rather than "spend," cash makes a lot of sense as you always know exactly where you are.

I respect other people's decision to use debit cards if they wish but all my small spend is via cash and I for one would certainly be dumping my purchase and walking out of any shop refusing my cash. Whether I'll have that option in 10 years time, who knows?

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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 12:55

If I go into the paper shop, I don't see many people buying their Daily Stars or Mars bars with cards.

If I go into Tescos, I can see more people using cards. But I can also see plenty of cash still being used.

Ten years' time ? That's actually a very short time for a monumental change.

What actually annoys me more is someone saying "We can't take that old tenner - it's not legal tender." "Oh, can I pay by card then ?" "Yes."

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By Ruddles
16th Mar 2018 13:09

It's not just about the cost of banking - these days it's equally, if not more so, about the availability of banking.

In light of RBS's recent decision to close a large number of branches (and others will undoubtedly follow) it's going to be harder and harder for businesses - especially rural ones - to bank their cash, never mind the charges for doing so.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 13:03

Good point - and I accept that.

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By Ruddles
16th Mar 2018 13:50

Spooky - just popped out to the corner shop to get a sandwich (using cash of course) and saw this headline on the newspaper stand:

"Tap and go payment sees debit and credit card fraud rocket"

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By lionofludesch
16th Mar 2018 13:57

Yeah - that's pickpockets.

Pinch a tap and go card and you can buy anything for £30 or less until the victim notices.

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