mr clean
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accounting has had its day!

accounting has had its day!

One of the main reasons for going into accountancy was to make a good living.

After all - no-one enjoys number crunching all day long - let alone how unhealthy it is - sitting down all day staring at a screen.

Fees are on a downward spiral - not that much to be made.

Look at some of the fees on various websites that are now being charged - ive even seen it being offered free.

Automation and law changes will only put a further dent on your potential fees.

Tax avoidance strategies are limited - or those being offered are illeagal

People on here  bang on about networking. Its had its day.  These things are crawling with so called accountants - both online and real networking. Same goes for magazine articles, newspaper articles, advertising etc... - its not worth it.

ALL accountants are struggling nowdays - even the big ones - because opportunities are limted. -- The general public dont like accountants – because there is nothing tangible being offered.

There are opportunities for bookeeping - but what a tedious way to live.

The whole accounting profession is dramatically changing (for the better in my opinion) because the traditional accountant is no longer needed - and the high fees charged are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

It doesnt matter how many curries you give away, how professional you make yourself look through a website, how many networking events you attend, how you think you are tech savvy by offering cloud (every man and his rabbit will offer it in the end), how much free tax advice you give away (its on the net anyway) - punters are not silly - the profession is doomed.

It used to be first meeting free - now its first set of accounts free - think about it.

The combination of automation(a good thing), government wising up to tax dodges(a good thing), downward fee spiral(a good thing) and every man and his dog offering accountancy services, - will end it all.

Think about it - fixed number of clients - increasing number of self employed accountants = downwrd fees spiral.

Do something you enjoy food, art, music whatever - your living standard will not be much worse AND youll be free and happier.

Thnx and Rgds


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02nd Oct 2010 11:42

Really ?

ALL accountants are struggling nowdays - even the big ones -

Posted by mr clean


And exactly what planet are you on ?

Incompetent accountants are struggling - the rest aren't.  In fact we have never had it so good.  

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02nd Oct 2010 11:59

Oh Dear!

I hope that you feel better soon.

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02nd Oct 2010 21:23

Bookeeping tedious?

Don't think so.

My wife works as such and is treated as part of the family - in two firms-...Fee increase? How much do you want..please don't leave, have another £5 an hour more......... 

She has never been happier.

Yes, there is more bowlocks from politicians but I just ignore most of it. The French (who ignore evertything they don't like) have it about right.

About time we did. 




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03rd Oct 2010 10:29

well of course

there are acccountants that have sufficient clients. But - fees are on  downward spiral!!

and for every 100 accountants that come on here to claim success there will be 1000 others that do not succeeed(to make a living) - too many.


So - its very easy to come on here and say how succesful you are - MY CHALLENGE - those of you that are dissilusioned/struggling etc...let us know (the graviy of the situation) - come on - post on here- I bet most will not.


I mean - it smacks of desperation when you have to resort to buying every man and his budgie a free curry!!!!

Punters will see thru that - take the curry and run - no brainer- punters are not so easliy manipulated - same goes for other desperate marketing ploys discussed on here - its all been dome - limited punters to goa round and shrinking.



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By happy
03rd Oct 2010 11:44

Times are changing

I do actually agree with many of your comments.

Our profession is changing we once had an open cheque book when a new client crossed the threshold but its a very different environment in which we now work, especially for those of us that work with small business clients.






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03rd Oct 2010 12:39


The tone of your message makes you sound very bitter.

Am I right in thinking that you are having trouble growing your own practice and as a result you believe the industry is doomed?

Perhaps you should look a bit closer to home and accept it may be down to your own short comings?

If you do this then you should be able to see where the problems are and be able to turn things around.  It would be a lot better for you if you were positive rather than looking on the down side as there are LOTS of opportunities out there if you work hard.


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03rd Oct 2010 14:10

You really are bitter and twisted ....

there are acccountants that have sufficient clients. But - fees are on  downward spiral!!

I mean - it smacks of desperation when you have to resort to buying every man and his budgie a free curry!!!!


Posted by mr clean on Sun, 03/10/2010 - 10:29


What "downward spiral" in fees would that be ?

There have always been some clients who expect you to work for nothing - and there have always been some "accountants" (mainly franchisees) who offer a Woolworths style service. They are a good match for each other and welcome to each other. We have seen many "cheap & cheerful" accountants set up - and go bust in a couple of years.

Now - exactly what is wrong with "free curry" or any other way of meeting clients, potential clients, and other businesses in the area?  We've had free advice clinics in the local pubs, and a myriad of other community events for 40 years.  This year we have a halloween party for local kids arranged in our grounds, and yes - staff will be in appropriate costume.  

These things are not "desparate marketing ploys", indeed anyone who even thinks of them in marketing terms is doomed to failure - it's called being part of the local business community, putting something back, and if it occasionally results in an additional client or two, well thats just a bonus. 

Do you think that our work with rehabilitation of offenders, or with "working girls", or the homeless, are "desperate marketing ploys" ?  Because I dont think we have ever gain a client that way. 

Good accountants, and indeed good firms of all types, will continue to thrive. What will happen is that the poor accountants, those who offer a second class service on the cheap will lose business - and quite frankly that is no bad thing.


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03rd Oct 2010 15:26

Re accountancy sector

Disagree with alot of comments. The poster is providing an honest assessment of small accountancy practice. When the politicians talk about accountancy being a growth area they are mistaken. Many years ago bills were regularly of £1,500+ for sole trader accounts. Practitioners could easily earn over £100k profit, and the time invested in gaining a professional qualification was worth the investment. Fifteen years on if a sole trader has a bill of more than £500 then they are probably overpaying and salaries in the sector are falling. You can provide additional value added services, but for most clients price is the determining factor. I haven’t worked in a middle sized firm for a while but I suspect they are the ones who are struggling most.

The problems facing the small practice can be attributed to a number of reasons:

1. Price comparison – Most firms now offer fixed fees and price comparison is possible.

2. Expertise – Historically you would have needed very good retained knowledge to act as an accountant. Now you can have limited knowledge and use free expertise on places like accounting web to impress the clients. The need for expensive training, books etc is no longer a necessity.

3. Failure of the regulators:

a) The company format was introduced to allow people to take risks without the fear of losing their personal wealth. These days tax avoidance is the purpose for many companies.

b) Many of the familiar systems are simply outdated. A couple of examples:

- PAYE – In a world that changes weekly, having employees on long term contracts is no longer applicable for many businesses. Look at accountants, there are a whole load of medium sized firm with employees on 60K plus, is this sustainable as prices fall.

- Companies House – What is the point? I could name at least three hundred companies where filing accounts was pointless. Please spare me the textbook list.

c) The professional bodies have been so busy trying to grab market share they have forgotten to regulate the industry. In other industries the regulators prevent new entrants by creating barriers through regulation and thereby ensure high profits for the existing players. The CCAB boys brag about their numbers but each new member is another competitor. The CCAB, in comparison to say the Law Society, is a shower.

4. Overseas sub contracting – The biggest threat to the industry over the next decade will be more work being subcontracted overseas. Leaving politics aside, you could employ six enthusiastic people in India for the price of one UK worker. More jobs will be carried out overseas with a UK interface.

5. Increasing automation and shifting work to cheaper jurisdictions means less accountancy jobs in bigger companies as well. Those made redundant have nowhere to go and end up in the small accountancy sector. More competition = Lower prices.

6. Better accountancy and tax systems reduce the workload and also of the client willingness to pay.

The underlying points raised by the thread are therefore generally accurate, although it sounds like the poster needs to go out and get hammered.

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03rd Oct 2010 16:18


I would LOVE to meet you; as I have said before, I warm to you more as the weeks go by.

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03rd Oct 2010 18:18

@ Richard

Me too.

Sometimes I wonder if he exists outside of the vitual world.

Has anyone on Aweb met him? Please come forward if you have.

-- Kind regards Andy

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By SteveOH
03rd Oct 2010 19:19

@ Richard and Andy

Me also.

Someone find out where he is and we can hire a coach and surprise visit him at his office; relax in his garden, stroke his cats (he'll appreciate that), find out what makes him so successful and spend an evening at his local on one of his "pub nights".

I'm sure that I for one would learn an awful lot.

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03rd Oct 2010 20:55

Visit to CD

Count me in as well!


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03rd Oct 2010 21:02


Im intruiged as to how you rehabiliate working girls.

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03rd Oct 2010 23:11

mr clean

Im intruiged as to how you rehabiliate working girls.


Posted by mr clean on Sun, 03/10/2010 - 21:02


I will ignore the cynics who seem incapable of seeing beyond their own small worlds.

However, assuming your question is genuine I will happily expand upon something I have been involved in for 40 years.  Firstly let me say that there is a great deal of prejudice regarding this group of people, something we saw only recently in the media feeding frenzy over a contestant in the "X" Factor programme.  Quite frankly some of that coverage made me ashamed to be British - I half expected them to start advocating public stonings, so ignorant were their comments.

Your own comment seems to imply a level of prejudice - as if you dont believe they can be "rehabilitated" or believe they are simply born that way.

"Working girls", with very rare exceptions, do not chose it as a lifestyle choice. Many have problems with drink or drugs, often as a result of pimps (who are the real criminals in the "trade").  These pimps introduce girls to drugs, usually selecting impressionable or easily manipulated girls. They supply them, get them addicted, then use that addiction to blackmail them into selling thier bodies to pay for more supplies. 

Beatings are commonplace, brutal torture is the norm, many of these girls have bruises and evidence of cigarrette burns, and these women live their lives in fear constantly having to earn more and more to feed their habits and to keep their pimps from subjecting them to violence.  If they try to leave they risk further beatings, or worse, and live in total fear.

To make their situation even worse of course, society turns it's back on them, and the police are powerless to help as they cannot offer the long term help needed. The attitude of "normal" people is what saddens me most as they have no understanding, no compassion, and seem afraid to try to help these abused women.  

What we do is befriend these women and offer them a way out of their nightmare and a chance to have a future. This means getting them off the streets and, crucially, away from the reach of the pimps. To begin with we offer them hot drinks, we talk to them, and get to know them.  We also liase with ocal police officers who often know which girls need our help. Often these women have children who pimps will hold onto as further blackmail and so we sometimes have to rescue them too. This sometimes means waiting until the right opportunity arises, and sometimes means forcing our way into houses and facing down pimps. And yes, Ive been threatened with knives and once with a gun by these lowlifes and several times they have become violent, which is why we dont go in alone.  Invariably these are "men" who are brave enough when beating up women, but cowards when faced by men who are not afraid of their threats.

Once we have the ladies away from the pimps and off the streets we have hostel places for them, they receive treatment for their drugs or alcohol addiction - all given free by experts - and they are counselled because invariably they are traumatised by the life they have been forced into.

Of course not all of them are forced into it by pimps. Some simply do it for economic reasons, often single mothers desparate for money.

Whatever the reason, we help them.

Once they are clear of their addictions and begin to feel safe (we house them well away from their old haunts) we then arrange education, vocational training, and help in finding accomodation, work, arranging schools for their children, and anything else they need. This can also involve financial help to furnish their homes, helping them with benefit claims, and generally holding their hands to take the stress off them. The support we offer is long term, indeed we are still in touch with many 20 or 30 years later and indeed they in turn often become mentors for rescued girls and provide safe havens for them.

Why do we do it?  Because almost 40 years ago I met a "working girl" in a court room, I offered a hand of friendship and helped her with her case, I talked to her, and what I learnt from her changed my life - and hopefully made me a better person.  Incidently that lady is still one of my closest friends and one of the nicest, most trustworthy, homest people I have ever met.

Now I know there will be cynics who think this is a waste of time as it doesnt bring in clients (indeed we have lost one or two bigotted clients over the years because of our work), but personally I feel sorry for people who are so small minded and mean spirited that they cannot see beyond that. I wonder how much happier others would be if they actually tried to do something worthwhile instead of merely pursuing money?

I know when I fall off my perch I will be much prouder of what I have achieved in my own small way by helping others, than I will of having built a business. To me the business is far less important and merely provides the money to allow us to do something worthwhile.




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By Guest1
04th Oct 2010 08:23

Now that's what I call accountancy

I met a former policeman, through my practice, in 1984. For a variety of reasons we became and have remained very close friends.

His philosophy was, "every day, try to make ten people laugh and, do a favour for three people". Whilst I have failed on many days since I heard that advice, whenever the opportunity arises, I do try and make a difference to someone else's life and that, for me, is far more important than the fees I might earn, during the day.

C-D's take on life seems about right to me and, if there's a coach party to meet him (sometime) count me in.

As for the OP yes, life does get tougher but, there's an old phrase "when the going gets tough, the tough get going".

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04th Oct 2010 09:28

Count me in too

for the visit to C-D.

Please make sure the coach goes via Skye though!! 

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04th Oct 2010 09:47


A lot of what you say isn't that far from the truth - though instead of seeing these reasons to get out of the profession you could argue that these are the challenges to overcome if you want to be successful in these times.

Life would be boring without challenges and change, even if some of those changes over which we have no control drive us mad.

Incidentally, is your user name in reference to the classic (and bitter) Jam song telling the story of an outwardly looking respectable businessman who couldn't shale off his darker side much as he tried to supress it?

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04th Oct 2010 09:51

Who say's accountancy is boring?

Surely I'm not the only one who enjoys it?! I can honestly say that after 25 years I still love to start a new job on a Monday morning (and many of these clients are 10 years + so there are no surprises coming!).

As for the market. I'm glad I started on my own 10 years ago and not now as clients report a steady stream of hungry new accountants knocking on the door every day. Oddly enough, I think now is the time to be a small sole practitioner. You don't have clients you have a load of freinds for whom you provide a good service and are trusted. That is a hell of a tie for someone else to try and break. As for Indian outsourcing ... I can't think of a single client who would be up for their financial records being sent to a third world country, so no I don't see it as a risk!



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04th Oct 2010 11:00

Don't see a problem

I've been a sole trader for 10 years and had 15 years as an employee prior to that.  I don't see a problem.  I don't have a problem.  I earn enough for my required standard of living bearing in mind my location and local costs of living etc.  My main problem has always been not having enough capacity and not being able to find suitable staff/subbies which leads me to regularly turn away potential new clients, but that's no bad thing as I can lever a lot more "value" from a long standing and loyal client base. 

But over the past couple of weeks, I've had two meetings with local "multi partner" practices and have been astonished at their attitude and now know why they're struggling to keep busy.  Neither have embraced "cloud" - both still labouring with Sage and bearly using the internet at all - one still had only one email address administered by the secretary who printed and handed them to the relevant staff who in turn dictated replies for the secretary to email back - this is supposed to be 2010 for pity's sake!  One firm charged around £1500 for typical sole trader accounts, the other charged £250 - and these are comparably sized firms!  I walked away from both meetings with a spring in my step having realised how foward looking, efficient and profitable I was after all and how right I was to walk away from that kind of firm and start my own.

That brings me to a wonderful couple of meetings I had with another local chartered accountant a few years ago - someone who never, ever, advertises, doesn't even have a website, yet expands by taking on at least one new trainee every single year (who usually stays there many years).  I couldn't believe his eye-watering charges, nor could I believe how much he paid his staff.  He had a single USP - that was service quality.  He gave the best service I've ever seen - that's why clients never left, that's why they regularly referred new clients to him.  His entire client base was A1 standard.   He gave his all to every single client and charged them for the privilage but they lapped it up.  He has been my inspiration in my own practice and I've tried to follow his lead.  My average fee has risen every year and continues to rise at 10-25% per year, every year, as I lever more charges out of my client base by offering more and better services - at the same time, I actively pursue a policy of getting rid of the crud.

The accounting profession is only going downhill if you let it happen.  There will always be crud clients who want cheap and nasty service.  Let the cheap accountants have them.  There will always be quality clients who value a quality service - that's where the future-looking accountants will prosper.

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04th Oct 2010 11:02



It seems that a lot of people are confused.

They seem to think that success and money in the bank are the same thing - they are not.

Being successful is reaching that point where you can pay your bills and have time to actually live. Take today as an example.  After 3 days of rain the sun is shining, so I'm off out shortly to see a client, then I'm going to chill out in nthe sun and relax.  I can do that because my work-life balance is sorted to allow me to take time off whenever the fancy takes me. THAT is success.

Count the number of real friends you have - that's a far better measure of success than counting the number of pound notes you have.

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04th Oct 2010 12:21

Still laughing at...

...'take the curry and run' (OP)

It's certainly happened to me a few times.

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By SteveOH
04th Oct 2010 17:44

Come on CD - another string to your bow.

That's 5 of us now who fancy a day trip to your gaff. You could run it as nice little side line (cash in hand - know what I mean!) with a seminar on how to look after clients and staff. Not forgetting a bash at your local in the evening. All in the beautiful countryside of Wales.

Actually, I'm not joking (apart from the cash in hand bit).

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04th Oct 2010 20:08


.....did you say the sun us shining in Wales?!


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By aadil
04th Oct 2010 22:29

Yes I want to meet C_D too!!!

My heroes from AW are: Euan Maclennan and C_D 

Would like to see and meet both in person. 



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04th Oct 2010 22:33

God was a Welshman

.....did you say the sun us shining in Wales?!


Posted by Sir Digby Chick... on Mon, 04/10/2010 - 20:08


The sun ALWAYS shines in Wales - it's just that occasionally  a few clouds get in the way on their way to England.

I was glad to hear on Radio 5 Live today a commentator at the Ryder Cup actually say that he had always been taught that God was a Welshman.

(Oooops - Under the new "Equalities Act" Harriet Harman will be suing me for saying that....)



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05th Oct 2010 01:38

Moving away from the important conversation

The original thread, save for updates on Wales, a forthcoming curry evening involving Aweb members and a few Welsh beauties,  was about where the profession is heading long term. That’s the accounting profession.


Re India – Look at the next post on cloud computing. Your data will be stored in Timbuktu and it will not matter who works on that data?  Who will care if the data is accessed from Delhi or Derby. This probably won’t affect micro businesses but it will impact slightly higher up the food chain and this will have repercussions throughout the accountancy profession. A lot of back office accountancy work across a diverse range of industries has already been subcontracted overseas, and there is no logical reason to assume that accountancy practice will be exempt. Re: profitability in industry – Mid tier firm charging £250 for a set of accounts! Need I say more. The decline in profit on the job over the past decade is probably in excess of 200%. On these prices to make £100k turnover you need a minimum of 400 clients. But unfortunately the prices won’t stop going down. Sole traders are going to be in a good position at this time because generally we are the ones taking the work from mid tier firms, but eventually it will get very competitive and as the original poster states, some of the prices now being quoted are competitive. Still in a mature market that’s what you expect. You can try and find a niche, and that is what most of us are doing at the moment, and many of us are having success. But will this last mid to long term? Yes, you can rely on your old client base to pay higher fees based on a premium service, but as the older age group are replaced by a more computer savvy, internet generation, are they really going to put up with paying ten times the rate for a preferential service! Some will, most probably won’t.   Information industries as wide ranging from Prem football, banking, movies and television, books, law, accountancy and education are standing as manufacturing did in the mid 1970’s. And what you need in changing times is a good regulator who will recognise the benefit of a strong accountancy profession where the information produced has recognised value. We have the CCAB. Safe hands then!

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05th Oct 2010 08:36

The trip to Wales is highly relevant

Forget the modern marketing management techniques, let's see and hear from the horse's mouth how it is really done.

Not only could we see how a large rural practice thrives, we could be entertained by anecdotes about the army, meet a few rehabilitated ladies of the night, stroke a toothless cat, talk to multi-generational staff and clients and learn how to give HMRC a right good kicking.

There is clearly a market for this. I for one would pay handsomely for this opportunity. Come on C_D don't disappoint us and restrict your expertise to the virtual world.

-- Kind regards Andy

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05th Oct 2010 08:39

the point of the post was

just an assessment of the current situation vis a vis the professsion.

A number of the comments on here have vindicated my view.

One of the major problems with accountancy services is that there is nothing tangible. Thats why differentiation opportunities are very limited.

A  number of the marketing ploys suggested on AW verge on the sycophantic and desperate. A bit like some religions. Beware being brainwashed (and possibly handing over cash to some guru or other).

Those kidding themselves that they are 'different' to other accountants - think again - punters dont really care abount much but price nowadays - thats why fees are on the way down.

A tax return is a tax return is tax return.

It will all be automated in the end. As it should be - no need for "accountants".

Those old timers must have seen a lot of changes over the years.

Like I said 1 succesful 10 struggling - not enough punters.

JD - I always thought Mr Clean was from the perspective of just an individual - not necessarily a business man - more like  a view of the 'Smithers Jones' of this world, from a bitter person. A fine tune,  a fine band.  That tune had crossed my mind.


Thank you for taking your time to comment.













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05th Oct 2010 09:30

Sad-assed Accountants

All that these posts have shown is that some accountants have benefitted from 17 years' growth in the economy, fuelled by consumer debt, and charged outrageous fees for what they did. I don't recognise £100K profits for a sole practitioner and certainly not £1,500 fees for sole trader accounts. I'm happy with £300 for a plumber's accounts knowing that I never need to engage in marketing or advertising because I rarely lose clients to other accountants.

I don't doubt for one minute that these fees were being charged but I'm just asking how much of these excess profits (and that's what they were as today's climate is testifying) were put by for a rainy day. As accountants we do have one advantage over most of the population and that is we can work until we drop and are not restricted by our age - whether we want to is of course another matter (please refer to the rainy day above).

I've been playing with accountancy for 46 years and am finding that there has never been more demand for accountants with experience not just of pure accounts but general business advice ranging from County Court procedures to contract law. I believe the profession has let down its younger members by dumbing down its examinations in order to maintain its membership levels and its income.


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05th Oct 2010 09:38

Mr Clean - Your post makes no sense without a context.

From what position are you looking at this? My perspective as a sole practitioner surviving (nicely) on referral business is clearly going to be very different to a new franchisee who will be different again to the middle market high street practice. We each have very different clients with very different needs and wants and your broad brush analysis is just wrong. Of course prices have gone down but so has the time taken to complete the work. The most important thing to my clients is trust and relationship in their accountant.

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05th Oct 2010 09:51

Short term problem
the point of the post was just an assessment of the current situation vis a vis the professsion. It was no way intended to slight any individuals. Im sorry that some people seem to have taken it that way and have decided to be personal(i.e suggesting bitterness etc).

Posted by mr clean on Tue, 05/10/2010 - 08:39


I still believe your view is, shall we say, over pessemistic.  Of course the ability to "sell" your services, and indeed yourself, is going to become more and more important.

This leads me to believe that certain individuals who had almost sold me on the idea of running an open day will probably struggle as the recent clearly sarcastic comments have served only to convince me that this idea is not genuine and merely a feeble excuse to attempt to massage their own ego's which certainly appear to be fragile. Certainly they have destroyed their original "selling" effort. Perhaps they will lean to "shut up whilst ahead".

As for the future of the profession - I do agree that there are currently an unsustainable number of accountants both qualified and QBE's, however this situation will resolve itself as those not up to the job will soon go out of business.

Yes there are some (often franchises) who are driving fees down, however we find that inevitably their clients end up with expensive tax investigations due to the poor quality of the advice they receive, and that is when to turn to "proper" accountants. The same applies to outsourced work - which inevitable falls flat at some point.

My prediction is that in 10 years time the era of franchise accountants doing a cheap and cheerful job will be over, the profession will be slimmer, and fees will, if anything, be higher.




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05th Oct 2010 11:10

Doom and gloom

It is overly pessimistic but just adding to the sense of doom and gloom from the initial post.

As one of my favourite all time sayings goes "Every silver lining has a cloud".

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By SteveOH
05th Oct 2010 13:34

Where on earth did that come from, CD?


This leads me to believe that certain individuals who had almost sold me on the idea of running an open day will probably struggle as the recent clearly sarcastic comments have served only to convince me that this idea is not genuine and merely a feeble excuse to attempt to massage their own ego's which certainly appear to be fragile. Certainly they have destroyed their original "selling" effort. Perhaps they will lean to "shut up whilst ahead". - Posted by CD

I for one was not being sarcastic and I don't believe the other comments were either. And I certainly don't have an ego to massage.

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05th Oct 2010 13:44


I agree it cerainly it will be slimmer.


There will be 2 professions come out of this.

1 - basic bookkeppers/number crunchers - earning around average uk income - which whilst very repectable does not  provide for BMWs, big houses and the like that some  accountants in the past have got used to.


2- very specialist tax advice - a very limited market and far slimmer than at the moment.


Reason - automation and HMRC taking over much of the work.

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05th Oct 2010 14:31

Where on earth did that come from, CD? 

Posted by SteveOH on Tue, 05/10/2010 - 13:34


Try reading Andy's post.

Actually next year we will be looking for at least 2 staff member to replace 2 retirees, and the idea of some sort of an "open day" combined with informal interviews might be a good idea. After all this area is attractive, especially to those from nearer London as you get a lot more house for your money here, or the same house for a hell of a lot less. Combine that with a more relaxed pace of life, beautiful scenery, and it has to be an attractive proposition.

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By SteveOH
05th Oct 2010 16:38

Hmmm, I think I have to agree

Try reading Andy's post.

Posted by cymraeg_draig on Tue, 05/10/2010 - 14:31

I reread Andy's post above and thought that you were perhaps being a trifle over sensitive. I subsequently read his post about you on Becky's thread on dinner invitations and find that I agree with you.

Let us know if you do decide to have an open day.

I'll provide the Steamed Snowdon pudding. Yummy!

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