Accounting period Companies House - amended

Accounting period Companies House - amended accounts and CT periods do not align

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A new client has come to me after trying to DIY their first year and filed their own accounts etc.

Less than £20k profits in company. They didn't register a PAYE scheme last year unfortunately. Am suggesting they do so now.

CT period is to 31/01/2020. CT600 not filed.

Companies House accounts were filed to 31/10/2019 and these need to be amended.

Was thinking to request HMRC to amend first CT period to 31/10/2019 in order to align periods. It would just mean CT payment overdue by a couple of months.

Is it an alternative to extend Companies House reference period to 31/01/2020? There seems to be possibility on CH to extend the prior period to 31/01/2020. Would this mean that I could then file CH accounts online (and that they would not be amended and filed on paper)?

Other suggestions welcome too.

Thanks in advance!

Replies (24)

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ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
30th Sep 2020 17:06

How major are the amendments? Could you shorten YE Oct 20 to be PE Jan 20, include the 2019 adjustments in those and file online. Then consolidate the 2 sets of accounts for the Jan20 CT600.

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 17:40

Thanks - that's an idea and is a possibilty.

That would mean:
- create set of accounts 01/11/2019 to 31/01/2020 for CH.
- create set of accounts just for the CT return from 02/01/2019 (trading start date) 31/01/2020 in order to attach to the 2 x first CT returns.

As they will have a loss this year, and then probably close the company down, they will want the CT refund as soon as possible. Therefore, the YE could be shortened again to 31/10/2020.

Does that sound fair?

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Sep 2020 23:04

atleastisoundknowledgable... wrote:

How major are the amendments? Could you shorten YE Oct 20 to be PE Jan 20, include the 2019 adjustments in those and file online. Then consolidate the 2 sets of accounts for the Jan20 CT600.


You can't do that if the accounts have already been filed at Co House.

Your CT600 must be made up to Oct 2019.*

*Edited - apologies.

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By johngroganjga
30th Sep 2020 17:32

It doesn't sound right that the HMRC reporting period is different from the period for which it prepares accounts. How has that come to pass?

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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 17:42

Company incorporated in October 2018. They told HMRC the trading start date was 02nd Jan 2019. HMRC sent the two CT return 603s as a result (12m to 01/01/2020 and also 02/01/2020 to 31/01/2020).

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
By johngroganjga
30th Sep 2020 18:08

That can’t be right. They must also have told HMRC that they were going to move the year end to January, then decided not to. Is that the case?

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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 19:42

That's definitely possible the client told HMRC that. Knowing HMRC, it's possible they just did it anyway

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
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By Matrix
30th Sep 2020 18:38

Just prepare the CT600 to the accounts date and HMRC records will update automatically.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 19:43

I was wondering if HMRC automatically did that - I haven't tried it yet myself. Has that worked for you?

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
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By lionofludesch
30th Sep 2020 19:47

StartUpAcc wrote:

I was wondering if HMRC automatically did that - I haven't tried it yet myself. Has that worked for you?

They don't do it. You do it on the CT600 by telling them what the period of the return is.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 20:43

Apologies, that's what I meant. I've always previously just phoned in advance and changed the date...unnecessary then and this saves me the step.

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
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By Matrix
30th Sep 2020 20:22

I filed one yesterday and the AP had already been updated online today.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Sep 2020 19:43

Accounting reference date starts a new CT period. Them's the rules - or one of them.

You don't need to request this. It's mandatory.

CT periods will match the fuled accounts - subject to no CT period exceeding 12 months.

Does that make your decision for you ?

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By mumpin
30th Sep 2020 20:35

"They didn't register a PAYE scheme last year unfortunately"

This quote, along with your user name, makes me wonder if they will really get the best possible outcome, given that they have decided to consult someone offering professional services.

Apologies if my fears are unfounded.

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Replying to mumpin:
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By Matrix
30th Sep 2020 20:40

Check out the OP’s history.

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Replying to mumpin:
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By StartUpAcc
30th Sep 2020 21:14

Why is that quote troubling to you?

If related to an EYU, I thought an EYU is not possible if a PAYE scheme did not even exist last year and the director was just withdrawing via DLA. If it is possible to process an EYU (FPS) for the previous tax year when there was no PAYE scheme and the director was simply taking money out as and when, not as monthly salary for example, then I'm wrong and I have learned something. We can all learn something new.

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Replying to mumpin:
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By Jo Nokes
01st Oct 2020 14:08

He did say it was diy job for the first year, so he wasn’t in a position to advise a PAYE scheme

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Replying to Jo Nokes:
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By StartUpAcc
02nd Oct 2020 12:33

Thanks, yes this client has only come to me this week.

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Replying to mumpin:
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By StartUpAcc
02nd Oct 2020 12:35

I would actually welcome if you have any thoughts/comments. This client has come to me this week and, given your comment, I am now wondering and doubting if there is something I can do for last year and the lack of a PAYE scheme.

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Oct 2020 13:06

StartUpAcc wrote:

I would actually welcome if you have any thoughts/comments. This client has come to me this week and, given your comment, I am now wondering and doubting if there is something I can do for last year and the lack of a PAYE scheme.

The question is an ethical one.

Did the director draw a salary which went unreported ?

Or did he just draw money out and then realise he'd've had a better deal if he'd drawn a salary and now seeks to ameliorate that position by pretending it was a salary all along ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By StartUpAcc
02nd Oct 2020 13:43

Thanks, I agree on the ethics of it. It was simply the director drawing money and it was not salary and an EYU for last year is not appropriate.

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Replying to StartUpAcc:
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By Matrix
02nd Oct 2020 13:24

If the reason you are amending the accounts is to put through a salary, then don’t. I had understood that the PAYE scheme was being set up prospectively from your post, so do that.

If the client wanted the benefit of your advice then they would have engaged you earlier.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By StartUpAcc
02nd Oct 2020 13:48

The accounts amendment is not related to the salary but other mistakes they made.

Thanks, I am setting up the PAYE scheme for them prospectively.

That's exactly how I feel re engaging me earlier, (I do feel sorry for them, when if done properly very little tax would have been payable) but it's a mistake that they'll hopefully learn from too.

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By StartUpAcc
02nd Oct 2020 13:48

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

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