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Accounting practice or not??

Accounting practice or not??

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Currently, I am bookkeeper for some small limited companies and they have chartered accountants to do annual accounts and CT

I would like to take over the annual accounts and CT for these limited companies from next year

I am not qualified or chartered accountant but I have experience in accounting practice before, and filed many annual accounts/ CT for small companies

I know that annual accounts/ CT are considered public practice job, and public practice certificate is required to open public practice

My question is that can I file annual accounts/ CT for them without public practice certificate??

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
03rd Jun 2016 13:49

I am taking up brain surgery. Would you like to become my client?

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jun 2016 16:22

Portia Nina Levin wrote:

I am taking up brain surgery. Would you like to become my client?

Patient, surely.........

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By taxguru
03rd Jun 2016 13:59

It's a free country - you do not need anything!

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
03rd Jun 2016 14:11

The only requirement is registration as an ASP (subject to any rules of any professional bodies of which you are currently a member) so if you are currently acting as a self employed bookkeeper you are presumably already registered.

Whether it is a good idea or not really depends on your experience, nobody but yourself can really answer re this point, but the secret is always not what you know but what you don't know, and the tricky bit is knowing there are things you do not know and what they may be.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 14:24

DJKL wrote:

The only requirement is registration as an ASP (subject to any rules of any professional bodies of which you are currently a member) so if you are currently acting as a self employed bookkeeper you are presumably already registered.

Whether it is a good idea or not really depends on your experience, nobody but yourself can really answer re this point, but the secret is al
ways not what you know but what you don't know, and the tricky bit is knowing there are things you do not know and what they may be.

So, there no such law required for accountants to hold practice certificate (chartered accountant) to file accounts and ct?

And, also you mentioned that it is up to prof. body I am registered currently, say I am part qualified ACCA (passed 9 F papers), according their rules I should hold public practice certificate, but I am not advertising myself as ACCA approved accountant and client is not relying on because I am linked to ACCA, do I still need public certificate?

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Replying to money999:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
03rd Jun 2016 14:32

money999 wrote:

I am not advertising myself as ACCA approved accountant and client is not relying on because I am linked to ACCA, do I still need public certificate?


Yes.
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Replying to runningmate:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 15:05

runningmate wrote:

money999 wrote:
I am not advertising myself as ACCA approved accountant and client is not relying on because I am linked to ACCA, do I still need public certificate?

Yes.

Why - yes?

ACCA is not regulating body for these who files accounts/CT?

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Replying to money999:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
03rd Jun 2016 15:27

"Yes" because you are a student member of ACCA & they have rules which you must follow or resign (or incur a disciplinary penalty).
RM

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Replying to money999:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jun 2016 16:21

money999 wrote:

ACCA is not regulating body for these who files accounts/CT?

I do not understand this sentence,

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Out of my mind
By runningmate
03rd Jun 2016 14:17

Briefly:-
1. If you are an employee of the company (or companies) in question then you can prepare the annual accounts & CT returns, no problem.
2. If you are not an employee of the company concerned and you are a member of a professional body which requires you to meet certain conditions to be in public practice then you cannot prepare the annual accounts or CT computations unless you either (a) resign your membership of the professional body or (b) obtain a practicing certificate from the professional body.
3. If you are not an employee of the company concerned and you are not a member of a professional body, then you need to register with HMRC as an 'accountancy services provider' under Money Laundering Regulations 2007 & comply with the requirements of MLR 2007 - but then you can prepare the annual accounts & CT returns.
RM

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Replying to runningmate:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 15:10

runningmate wrote:

Briefly:-
1. If you are an employee of the company (or companies) in question then you can prepare the annual accounts & CT returns, no problem.
2. If you are not an employee of the company concerned and you are a member of a professional body which requires you to meet certain conditions to be in public practice then you cannot prepare the annual accounts or CT computations unless you either (a) resign your membership of the professional body or (b) obtain a practicing certificate from the professional body.
3. If you are not an employee of the company concerned and you are not a member of a professional body, then you need to register with HMRC as an 'accountancy services provider' under Money Laundering Regulations 2007 & comply with the requirements of MLR 2007 - but then you can prepare the annual accounts & CT returns.
RM

Thanks, this is more clearer for me now

i am employed with those companies and acca part qualified student.

so, can i still file accounts/ CT for those companies?

also, i am in the processes of application for HMRC ML100 to register as an 'accountancy services provider', after obtaining it, can I do self assessments as sole trader ??

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Replying to money999:
By JCresswellTax
03rd Jun 2016 15:23

You can do them. Whether you do them correctly or not is another question ;)

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Replying to JCresswellTax:
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By justsotax
03rd Jun 2016 15:29

my biggest concern would be the lost art of 'research'...

What will you do when you come across something you don't know the answer to, ask a question on Aweb, or do a bit of research first. Being in practice (or acting for clients anyway) requires at the very minimum for you to be willing to undertake time to research areas you are not sure about - which will inevitably affect the potential 'profit' that you can earn.

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Replying to justsotax:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 16:00

justsotax wrote:

my biggest concern would be the lost art of 'research'...

What will you do when you come across something you don't know the answer to, ask a question on Aweb, or do a bit of research first. Being in practice (or acting for clients anyway) requires at the very minimum for you to be willing to undertake time to research areas you are not sure about - which will inevitably affect the potential 'profit' that you can earn.

as i done filing accounts/ CT for small comapnies, i can say that it is not complicated, and if i do not know something, i will go to note/ guidance of FRSs or HMRC, or can call them for help as i used to do when i worked in accounting practice...

but my concern is that, will i have problem with my current ACCA student membership?

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Replying to money999:
By cheekychappy
03rd Jun 2016 16:04

money999 wrote:

justsotax wrote:

my biggest concern would be the lost art of 'research'...

What will you do when you come across something you don't know the answer to, ask a question on Aweb, or do a bit of research first. Being in practice (or acting for clients anyway) requires at the very minimum for you to be willing to undertake time to research areas you are not sure about - which will inevitably affect the potential 'profit' that you can earn.

as i done filing accounts/ CT for small comapnies, i can say that it is not complicated, and if i do not know something, i will go to note/ guidance of FRSs or HMRC, or can call them for help as i used to do when i worked in accounting practice...

but my concern is that, will i have problem with my current ACCA student membership?

Yes you will have a problem with ACCA. This has already been explained to you.

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Replying to cheekychappy:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 16:16

cheekychappy wrote:

money999 wrote:

justsotax wrote:

my biggest concern would be the lost art of 'research'...

What will you do when you come across something you don't know the answer to, ask a question on Aweb, or do a bit of research first. Being in practice (or acting for clients anyway) requires at the very minimum for you to be willing to undertake time to research areas you are not sure about - which will inevitably affect the potential 'profit' that you can earn.

as i done filing accounts/ CT for small comapnies, i can say that it is not complicated, and if i do not know something, i will go to note/ guidance of FRSs or HMRC, or can call them for help as i used to do when i worked in accounting practice...

but my concern is that, will i have problem with my current ACCA student membership?

Yes you will have a problem with ACCA. This has already been explained to you.

How ACCA will find out that i have filed accounts

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Replying to cheekychappy:
By petersaxton
03rd Jun 2016 19:42

Yes, but not enough times.

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Replying to money999:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
03rd Jun 2016 15:31

money999 wrote:

Thanks, this is more clearer for me now

i am employed with those companies and acca part qualified student.

so, can i still file accounts/ CT for those companies?


Yes.

money999 wrote:

also, i am in the processes of application for HMRC ML100 to register as an 'accountancy services provider', after obtaining it, can I do self assessments as sole trader ??


No. You need a practicing certificate to do self assessments as a sole trader (or you need to resign from ACCA).
RM
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Replying to money999:
By The Highlander
03rd Jun 2016 15:32

Not if you want to remain an ACCA student.

http://www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/acca/global/PDF-members/2012/2012p...

Look at above and then phone ACCA to get further clarification if you still need it.

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Replying to The Highlander:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 16:13

The Highlander wrote:

Not if you want to remain an ACCA student.

http://www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/acca/global/PDF-members/2012/2012p...

Look at above and then phone ACCA to get further clarification if you still need it.

i phoned them before posting this here

they said, i need public certificate to file accounts/ CT even though i am employed, i explained that no-one relying on my work because of my ACCA registration and i will be employed, they still said i need public certificate just because i am student of ACCA

the funny thing is that I aksed them that i also CIMA qualified, and asked if i get public certificate from CIMA, and not from ACCA as i am only part qualified, they said I still need to get public certificate from ACCA even though i will have from CIMA

it is not fair, it should not be like this, I should be able to file accounts/ CT without ACCA public certificate if i am NOT saying to my clients that I am ACCA approved

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Replying to money999:
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By the_fishmonger
03rd Jun 2016 16:38

This happened...

ACCA find out (and someone will usually do you the courtesy of dropping you in it), they will haul you off to a disciplinary in London at your expense, kick you out and fine you for the pleasure.

They will also be so incompetent when it comes to collecting the fine that the first you will hear is a letter from a solicitor demanding you pay the invoice (what invoice?) or else...five years later

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By justsotax
03rd Jun 2016 16:39

so you already had the answer?

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By cheekychappy
03rd Jun 2016 16:56

It's not unfair. If you don't wish to be part of the club, resign. If you wish to be part of the club, then follow the rules.

It's not difficult.

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boxfile
By spilly
03rd Jun 2016 17:00

And don't forget that you should also have some sort of indemnity insurance for your own protection, otherwise it could get very expensive if one of the companies sues you. Would they still be happy to use you if they knew you did not have this cover?

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Replying to spilly:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 17:09

spilly wrote:

And don't forget that you should also have some sort of indemnity insurance for your own protection, otherwise it could get very expensive if one of the companies sues you. Would they still be happy to use you if they knew you did not have this cover?

even i am employed, can they still sue me??

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Replying to money999:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
03rd Jun 2016 17:22

You cannot be sued by your employer for negligently performing work you do for him in the course of your employment.
I suspect ACCA did not understand that you would simply be preparing accounts & CT returns for your employer as part of the duties of your employment.
RM

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Replying to runningmate:
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By money999
03rd Jun 2016 17:52

runningmate wrote:

You cannot be sued by your employer for negligently performing work you do for him in the course of your employment.
I suspect ACCA did not understand that you would simply be preparing accounts & CT returns for your employer as part of the duties of your employment.
RM

that's what i think as well,

I spoke to lady (ACCA) who sounded inexperienced for this question

thank you for you

Thanks (1)
By petersaxton
03rd Jun 2016 19:46

If you are asking this question and also you have difficulty understanding the answers then I would think there is likely to be a lot of other things you don't know and/or dont understand. I would suggest avoiding preparing accounts until you have more experience and more knowledge.

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By Tim Vane
03rd Jun 2016 19:53

Reading this thread is like watching a lorry reversing into a playground, with people yelling at the driver to stop while he is oblivious to what's going on behind him.

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Replying to Tim Vane:
RLI
By lionofludesch
04th Jun 2016 10:20

Ach - the kids will get out of the way.

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