ADL in January

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Email from HMRC:

"From 1 January 2023 until 31 January 2023 the Agent Dedicated Line (ADL) will only be able to answer questions on complex SA queries. This is to make sure we can support you to complete your clients' SA returns.

The SA peak is always our busiest time. To help us provide the best service we can through the SA peak, we want to make sure that you always use our digital services where possible and only use the ADL for SA related enquires. If you need to ring for other reasons throughout January you should use the normal customer lines where they will get answered, but it may take a little longer than usual.

You should:

  • use the Agent Dasboard for the quickest way to establish when to expect a reply from HMRC to a query or request
  • sign up for the Income Record Viewer service as an agent to access pay and tax details, employment history and tax codes
  • remind customers to use their Personal Tax Account (PTA) to access general tax information and employment histories. Customers can also use their PTA to request a SA302

We receive lots of calls to the ADL which are not complex enquiries for example, PAYE queries in relation to progress-chasing, queries about general tax information and employment histories. You can get these answers on our self-serve digital channels."

A bit bothered that HMRC think having to call the general helplines will only represent a delay of "a little longer", or that they think other "digital channels" are of any use whatsoever.

Replies (20)

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By lesley.barnes
19th Dec 2022 16:52

Anyone would think that we rush to use the ADL as our first option rather than trying every other avenue possible first. After all we would much rather listen to hold music for an hour rather than work on a clients SA in January.

Can anyone at HMRC define complex SA queries for me?

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Replying to lesley.barnes:
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By D V Fields
19th Dec 2022 18:52

lesley.barnes wrote:

Can anyone at HMRC define complex SA queries for me?

Anything as complex as “Good morning how are you today?”

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By Paul Crowley
19th Dec 2022 16:57

They needed to get their own back on the accountancy profession for enjoying the MTD push back a bit too much

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Dec 2022 17:04

SteveHa wrote:

Email from HMRC:

"From 1 January 2023 until 31 January 2023 the Agent Dedicated Line (ADL) will only be able to answer questions on complex SA queries. This is to make sure we can support you to complete your clients' SA returns.

Funny, there was me thinking the LAST think the ADL could do was answer complex SA queries.

They struggle on basic stuff. 3 calls to get a tax code changed last week. Or is that now "complex"?

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By rmillaree
19th Dec 2022 17:22

Lol - this is so of their own making its laughable. Starter for 10 would have been respecting our existing authorisations (respect my authority as cartman would say) and ensuring all authorised clients were linked to the Income Record Viewer by default. Its no coincidence the peeps that struggle to get paye info (p60's and the like) are much more likley to be the digitally excluded crowd who would not feel safe having a personal tax account.

On the flipside now the Income Record Viewer is available i am trying to do my bit and sign clients up as fast as i can - that aint easy at this time of year as the clients it most benefits right now arent exactly the clients who are happy to go off and sort that task.

"or that they think other "digital channels" are of any use whatsoever."
To be fair to hmrc the Income Record Viewer is a good step forward and a most useful tool where we can gain access.

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Replying to rmillaree:
Morph
By kevinringer
21st Dec 2022 16:11

The problem with the IRV is the same problem as the 60-day CGT: authorisation, why do we need new authorisation just for this?

When HMRC created online SA, all our 64-8 authorities were carried over to online SA. We didn't need a new 64-8. HMRC might say "the SA 64-8 is all SA, online as well as offline". Ok, well what about employers PAYE or contractor CIS? The paper 64-8 did not cover them: we had to submit a FBI2. HMRC might say "that's a different system". Ok, what about CJRS? That's not employer PAYE: nothing to do with employer PAYE, yet HMRC decided our existing employer PAYE FBI2s would magically also cover CJRS. So we know that if HMRC want it to happen, HMRC can give us instant access to new regimes without requiring new authority. HMRC could apply the same CJRS-no-authorisation-requested to IRV, and 60-day CGT. HMRC has set a precedent. If HMRC did, it would ease their workload dramatically.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By rmillaree
21st Dec 2022 19:17

"That's not employer PAYE: nothing to do with employer PAYE, yet HMRC decided our existing employer PAYE FBI2s would magically also cover CJRS. So we know that if HMRC want it to happen, HMRC can give us instant access to new regimes without requiring new authority. HMRC could apply the same CJRS-no-authorisation-requested to IRV, and 60-day CGT. HMRC has set a precedent. If HMRC did, it would ease their workload dramatically."

The one difference here is that the IRV is that this is on the new ASA acount where generally they are plonking new items. The jrs scheme info was viewable via the old gateway and therefore intrinsically linked to something that was there already. Note the authorisation works on NI numbers to so is preumably not in any way linked to sa records as such !

There is a middle grfound here being the button to move clients over , that worked for vat and is there for sa even though sa doesnt exost yet - so perhaps given time clients may be able to be ported over at some stage if we get lucky.

I for one would rather have the system up and running now "warts and all" rather than waiting longer for something that works more seemlessly.

The reality is that for clients who have pta - its email of set link (all clients have the same link) - clients click on link login and job done. So in theory for organised clients with pta's its kinda buncum to say its hard work. Easy to email all clients standard message and ask if they have pta please do then following.

so whilst i semi share the frustration of others - i am looking at the positives that we have a decent tool we did not previously have - and its turrned up at a decent time of year for our wait till the last minute brigade. So despite if being far from what we want in an ideal world i will not be b itch ing for once.

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Replying to rmillaree:
Morph
By kevinringer
21st Dec 2022 19:29

These regime-by-regime authorisations discriminate against the digitally excluded and digitally challenged. HMRC have already granted MTD exemption to half my VAT clients on the grounds of digital exclusion. So no IPV for them. I reckon a higher proportion of my SA clients are digitally excluded/challenged. Despite my clients being digitally excluded/challenged, I am not and have been filing digital SA return for 100% of my clients since 1998. That is because the SA process does not require a digitally-competent client to digitally authorise me. I had been filing 100% digital CGT schedules from 1998 to 2020, but the digital authorisation since 2020 for the 30/60-day CGT means that I now only file 5% digital CGT. If HMRC hadn't put the digital authorisation obstacle in my way, I'd still be 100% digital.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By rmillaree
21st Dec 2022 20:17

These regime-by-regime authorisations discriminate against the digitally excluded and digitally challenged.

100% agree - its not acceptable and they need sto find what is probably a very simple solution in that regard - ie let us access/setup setup clients personal tax account when client agrees they are such a client. Guessing there is already mechanism for "frieeeeends" to do that perhaps.

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By Catherine Newman
19th Dec 2022 19:43

I have sent this to Stuart who sent the questionnaire out today. I had an amazing 1/2 hour call with him this evening. He is entirely on our side and wants to hear from us orally.

If you haven't had the questionnaire, PM me.

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Replying to Catherine Newman:
By JCresswellTax
21st Dec 2022 10:07

Who is Stuart? Should we know him?

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By mbee1
20th Dec 2022 07:51

It's shocking service and HMRC are not fit for purpose. Lots of our clients are dealt with in PD1 who are digitally excluded so, as much as we'd like to use the new Income record Viewer, we can't. Nor can we submit an electronic 60 day CGT return. I'm afraidd they are a pathetic shower!

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By Open all hours
20th Dec 2022 08:55

Another glorious service failure. Another day nearer to Jim Harra’s knighthood no doubt.

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Morph
By kevinringer
20th Dec 2022 10:44

"You should:

use the Agent Dasboard for the quickest way to establish when to expect a reply from HMRC to a query or request"

But the dashboard at https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/guidance/HMRC-service-dashboard/HMRC-serv... does not list all matters agents need to progress chase. For example, there are no CGT 60-day reporting issues at all (95% of my CGT cases are digitally exempt so everything has been on paper).

The dashboard is also wrong. I recently spoke to the ADL about a SA Return HMRC had received in April 2021 that is still uncaptured in December 2022. The dashboard says it's a 15 day turnaround. I phoned the ADL who told me they are months behind and there's a 5-month wait on capturing my client's return.

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Morph
By kevinringer
20th Dec 2022 10:46

"You should:

sign up for the Income Record Viewer service as an agent to access pay and tax details, employment history and tax codes"

HMRC has already granted digital exemption to half my MTD VAT clients on the grounds of digital exclusion. My digitally-excluded clients cannot do the above. HMRC is discriminating against the digitally excluded.

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Morph
By kevinringer
20th Dec 2022 10:46

"You should:

remind customers to use their Personal Tax Account (PTA) to access general tax information and employment histories. Customers can also use their PTA to request a SA302"

Agents cannot access the PTA. Until HMRC give us access, we have no choice but to phone HMRC.

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By indomitable
20th Dec 2022 15:14

Ha! Ha!

HMRC have problems answering simple questions, what this means is they won't answer any, and really are they going to have proper tax advisors at the end of the phone that can answer a complex question?

Another completely nonsensical comment from HMRC

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By Refs1
20th Dec 2022 22:53

Oh here we go again. I am acting for my client. If I need information to deal with my clients tax affairs, I will be telephoning them on the ADL. Any none compliance will result in a complaint. Yes if we can find an easier solution then we will.

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By Matrix
20th Dec 2022 23:00

I asked for overlap relief and had to be put through to the technical line so which complex questions will the ADL be answering?

To be fair, this has only happened because agents are calling up for figures which should be provided by their client.

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Morph
By kevinringer
21st Dec 2022 19:30

HMRC is inconsistent: we phoned HMRC last week to request a list of CIS deductions for a subcontractor client, and HMRC posted the list to us. They've insisted on posting to the client in the past. Next month they might not even talk to us. Very contrary.

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