Agent filing SA1

Can an agent file an SA1 on behalf of a client?

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Can an agent file an SA1 on behalf of a client?

This suggests not, under the heading "Register for Self Assessment":
https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/guides/self-assessment-end-to-end-...

News to me, I didn't get the memo, and there is no other mention on t'internet.

 

Replies (26)

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By Matrix
12th Jul 2021 19:48

Yes. Why don’t you give it a go?

Not that you are usually the agent at the time of applying.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Gone Sailing
12th Jul 2021 19:55

Que?

Firstly, in the good old days, I've done many dozens online, but now .........

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-register-for-...

From there it goes to the familiar log in, so I use my agency .....
Fill in the client details ......

Client gets an email "computer says no".
Conclusion: Clients details conflict with my gateway.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By Matrix
12th Jul 2021 20:31

You didn’t say that in your post. When did you last do it successfully then?

We put our email, not the client’s. Will give it a go and let you know if I get the same.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 09:00

Probably pre first lockdown.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By rmillaree
13th Jul 2021 08:28

Gone Sailing
"Conclusion: Clients details conflict with my gateway."

It's common that sa1 applications fail for spurious reasons that may be hard to fathom - the most obvious one being an old historic UTR being in existence not entered on form that is confusing the process. Other than that if you have no joy and are not in a hurry sending paper 64-8 (is anyone else findingt that these are going awaol at present !!??) and then ringing agent helpline may get the process started.

As an aside someone in my office has suggested that if clients set up a gateway/personal tax acount now they can do this without providing utr and that utr will be pre populated within their gateway if they succeed with registration - would be interested to know if anyone can confirm or deny if this rumour is correct or not - seems to good to be true. Often the hardest part of the whole process is getting out of the client the fact that they did have a UTR all alone when they stubbornly pretend they have never had one before.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By SXGuy
13th Jul 2021 08:45

Yes that's correct. A client did this a while back for me when we couldn't find his utr.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 09:02

Yes the Gov webpage in the link above says that the client should do the PTA first then register for SA within the PTA

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By doubletrouble
12th Jul 2021 22:32

Done one Saturday and went through fine, I used my agent account and the ‘register client for new taxes’ on the left

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By rmillaree
13th Jul 2021 08:19

doubletrouble
"Done one Saturday and went through fine, I used my agent account and the ‘register client for new taxes’ on the left"

Doubletrouble - Does the agent area deffo currently work for sa1 applications? - i thought that was only an option for sole traders ?- i have looked in our "old gateway" area and it seems like the only options are to register sole trader or partner which shouldnt be relevant here is the op has mentioned sa1!

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By doubletrouble
13th Jul 2021 08:31

I only use it to get the UTR number, once you have that you can fill out whichever sections you need on the tax return

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By rmillaree
13th Jul 2021 09:10

doubletrouble
"I only use it to get the UTR number, once you have that you can fill out whichever sections you need on the tax return"

My point is that registering for sa NOT as a sole trader or partner(sa1) and registering for sa as a sole trader(cwf1) /partner are two different registrations and should never be mixed up. My reading of the notes for the agent area route FULLY within the gateway is that this suggests this option is only to register people for sole trader /partnership trade which is simply not relevant for the op here (unless they have used the term sa1 in error)

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By mbee1
13th Jul 2021 07:43

All works for me. I've done a few in the last few weeks. Use our agent login and my email address.

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Replying to mbee1:
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By rmillaree
13th Jul 2021 08:22

mbee1 - can you confirm application you did was sa1 and not registration for sole trader cheers. Can you also confirm whetehr it was webform you filled via link outside gateway (albeit you may have entered gateway details) or did you do application entirely via the agent gateway account.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By mbee1
13th Jul 2021 15:02

rmillaree wrote:

mbee1 - can you confirm application you did was sa1 and not registration for sole trader cheers. Can you also confirm whetehr it was webform you filled via link outside gateway (albeit you may have entered gateway details) or did you do application entirely via the agent gateway account.


Confirm it was an SA1. Clicked the link I have on my desktop, took me to our agent login then opened up the SA1.
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 08:53

Yes, contributors may be confusing registering a new self employed business, which is inside the agents gateway ("on the left") which is still there, with the SA1 (eg. to register a new shareholder with dividends) which is a separate form not in the agents gateway.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By doubletrouble
13th Jul 2021 09:11

Can you not just declare the dividends on the tax return after you have the
UTR?

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 09:25

Circles. How do you get the UTR?
Answer: SA1. Go back to Go.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By doubletrouble
13th Jul 2021 09:33

Just register them on your agent account, once you have the UTR you can fill whatever sections you like on the tax return, I know it may not be the correct way to do it but it works, and at the end of the day you are still achieving the same thing which is submitting a correct tax return

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By rmillaree
13th Jul 2021 09:57

doubletrouble
" I know it may not be the correct way to do it but it works, and at the end of the day you are still achieving the same thing2
I couldnt disagree more - if its known that you are setting up the client as sole trader and activiting the class2ni record indicator as being live when thats not rleevant you are making life difficult for someone else later whilst also incorrectly flagging up client has a trade when they don't have one - probably ridiculously stupid idea from any complicance point of view or keeping clients below the radar with hmrc IMHO - i don't disagree that it may do the required job of getting tax return isued if thats all you care abouit and nothing else - although i suspect the same error message will be present anyway if its simply a data mismatch with clients details and what hmrc hold anyway.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By doubletrouble
13th Jul 2021 10:08

Everything that should be on the tax return will be on the tax return, there is no need for class 2 N/I as there is no self employment income and once you have the UTR you can phone the agent helpline and tell them the situation, you will still have the UTR as this has already been issued and very rarely would it change

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 10:47

Or you could file an SA1

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By doubletrouble
13th Jul 2021 10:52

Yes you could, which would have saved this post

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Replying to doubletrouble:
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By Gone Sailing
13th Jul 2021 11:20

The purpose of the post was to question whether the SA1 process has changed, per the link, ie. that an agent can no longer file an SA1, and that only the client can do it via a PTA. There is only one reference to this on the web, so I thought Aweb could help.

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By More unearned luck
13th Jul 2021 12:18

Are you referring to this:

"Agents’ clients must also register for Self Assessment themselves - the agent cannot do it for them."

So what? In law there is no such thing as registering for SA. All the law requires is that the taxpayer notifies HMRC that he or she has a liability to pay income tax, capital gains tax or SLRs. This can be done by letter or phone call from an authorised agent.

You may wish to play ball with HMRC as the January deadline looms or if the notification is not made by 5 October but otherwise write a letter - a dying art.

You shouldn't confuse HMRC practice with the law.

This doesn't, of course, apply if class 2 NIC is due.

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Gone Sailing
14th Jul 2021 11:48

So what?

Was just asking Aweb if a new procedure is in place.
We cannot file an SA without a UTR.
SA1 is the usual method of getting a UTR for new declarable dividend income.

You do realise that you wrote "the agent cannot do it for them" (quoting HMRC) and "This can be done by letter or phone call from an authorised agent" (quoting you)?

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By More unearned luck
14th Jul 2021 13:45

I do, but you seem to have missed my point.

The law has no new procedure, which is what matters. If HMRC won't let the agent give a s 7 notice electronically there is nothing to stop the agent giving the notice by other means. In the taxpayers' charter HMRC recognise that taxpayer can appoint agents and what is the point of a tax agent if he or she can't send information to HMRC on the client's behalf? Provided that the (paper) notice is given by 5 October following the end of the tax year, the taxpayer has complied with all his or her obligations. If HMRC respond to the notice with an NTF (as they should) then he or she must, of course comply with that, otherwise the taxpayer need do nothing more until next year when a s 7 notice re 2021/22 should be given if tax is due for that year and so on. If HMRC don't issue an NTF within four years, HMRC will have lost the ability to tax the taxpayer for that year.

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