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All Clear?

"Covid-secure workplace rules will become a legal obligation" (Boris)

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According to Boris at 12.44pm "Covid-secure workplace rules will become a legal obligation" under his six-month lockdown. 

Ten minutes on, I already have two emails from clients asking how that might affect them. One has staff seated less than two metres (but more than one metre) apart; the other is a tutor who gives lessons at people's homes. 

I've just heard Boris telling Parliament that the rules are clear. Does anyone know of a one-stop site where the detail is on display?

 

Replies (43)

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By Paul Crowley
22nd Sep 2020 13:19

Outrageous
There are much worse diseases.
Boris talks b0llox again

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Tax Dragon
22nd Sep 2020 14:57

There are "much worse diseases". But unchecked, this one would have killed more people in 2020 than all the others put together. And many of those it doesn't kill, it leaves permanently damaged.

Just saying I agree, but please don't be too glib about it.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
22nd Sep 2020 15:10

I couldn't agree more, Tax Dragon. I believe that I had the virus, at the end of March and probably had a very lucky escape, compared to many. It wasn't a pleasant experience and not one which I need to visit again, hopefully.

However, the condition threw up evidence of a heart murmur, efficiently followed by a series of cardio investigations. Although I don't need any major interventions, I will require regular monitoring.

From what I can see, none of us are too glib about it but, very regretfully, there is much reliance on science based evidence, quickly followed with little "hope". The British way of life, is stifled, without hope.

Furthermore, where there's little, apparent, political direction, it's very easy to follow up with what might appear to be, crass, casual comments.

I believe it's possibly a form of escapism?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Anonymous.
22nd Sep 2020 18:14

Tax Dragon wrote:

There are "much worse diseases". But unchecked, this one would have killed more people in 2020 than all the others put together. And many of those it doesn't kill, it leaves permanently damaged.

Just saying I agree, but please don't be too glib about it.

FWIW that view is entirely inconsistent with the experience of Sweden who have basically carried on with the most modest of measures.

https://www.ft.com/content/5cc92d45-fbdb-43b7-9c66-26501693a371

To be fair, it's even inconsistent with the apocalyptic pronouncements of now largely discredited Professor Neil Ferguson. In 2019 there were 531,000 deaths in England and Wales.

There are c165,000 cancer deaths each year in the UK and the GP and hospital lockdown means cancer diagnosis and treatment is not happening as it should. Similarly c150,000 or so heart disease deaths annually.

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Replying to Anonymous.:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
22nd Sep 2020 18:43

I wish that people would stop trotting out the Sweden model. Have a look at the population density of Sweden compared to the UK, especially England. Also look at the demographics and the respective cultures and approaches to life. It's a comparison between apples and vacuum cleaners. Pointless.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By Tax Dragon
22nd Sep 2020 20:10

Wilson Philips wrote:

I wish that people would stop trotting out the Sweden model.

Someone had to.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Anonymous.
23rd Sep 2020 10:42

Wilson Philips wrote:

I wish that people would stop trotting out the Sweden model. Have a look at the population density of Sweden compared to the UK, especially England. Also look at the demographics and the respective cultures and approaches to life. It's a comparison between apples and vacuum cleaners. Pointless.

Tax Dragon wrote:

Someone had to.

I wish that people would look at the facts:

https://www.ft.com/content/5cc92d45-fbdb-43b7-9c66-26501693a371

And have a listen to the Andrew Neil interview on YouTube with Anders Tegnell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C99MtK4ogM

You might learn something.

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Replying to Anonymous.:
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By Tax Dragon
23rd Sep 2020 11:30

Look, I didn't mean to spark some debate (that risks becoming hostile, polarised and personal... all the things Aweb is famous for but is trying to move away from) by asking Paul not to be too glib, please. All I wanted was to give pause for thought for people posting subsequent comments, hoping that they might display a little more sensitivity in tone.

And my only assertion, by the way - and one which you cannot deny - is that many, many more deaths would already have occurred had nothing been done to hold the virus in check. I didn't even assert that the NHS would not have been able to cope (possibly even with the Nightingale Hospitals); if not, some people that would have (indeed, have) survived with treatment would instead have succumbed for lack of it.

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By SXGuy
22nd Sep 2020 13:22

Considering he's only just gave the statement to the house and only the opposition leaders had sight of it prior to giving the statement, its unlikely there is (yet) anywhere giving you a simple clear laid out list.

I'd wait till tomorrow at the earliest.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 13:26

Thanks SXGuy, I guess as a starting point I'm hoping to tune in to a site detailing the existing rules. If one exists.

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Replying to richardm6400:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 13:49

Lovely-Jubbly!
Thanks, Richard.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By WhichTyler
22nd Sep 2020 17:03
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By 0098087
22nd Sep 2020 13:44

Love the way the accountant is the one stop when it's not actually your remit!

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Replying to 0098087:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 13:48

They've slipped through my remit net. One's a PITA relative and the other's a rather nice blonde.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
22nd Sep 2020 13:53

I guess you tried to go the "extra mile" for the second one?

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Replying to Chris.Mann:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 13:59

Being a gentleman, I prefer to.

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Replying to 0098087:
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By Cheshire
22nd Sep 2020 16:11

My thoughts exactly.

Wish they were all that quick to phone when they actually have plans they should be asking us about!

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Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
22nd Sep 2020 13:46

In football parlance, Boris is in danger of losing the dressing room.

That is, if he didn't lose it, some time ago.

The inmates are now running the asylum and the very idea of pernicious Covid penalties, being the way to lead us out of this pandemic, simply fills me with dread.

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Replying to Chris.Mann:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 14:45

Chris.Mann wrote:

In football parlance, Boris is in danger of losing the dressing room.

His star player, Matty Stopcock, needs substituting. The poor man is drivelling on about saving Christmas, having clearly lost the plot.
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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
22nd Sep 2020 14:50

"His star player, Matty Stopcock, needs substituting"

Just the one, eh?

Worse still, I actually voted for this shower of ****. However, I have made a promise to myself, never to venture out of the house, on election night, ever again. Lesson (hard) learnt.

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Replying to Chris.Mann:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
22nd Sep 2020 15:46

Perhaps if BJ had grown a pair and dealt with Mr Cummings appropriately we might have had at least slightly better compliance. It frustrates me hugely that the entire country is suffering, in part at least, because of the behaviour of a minority that continue to flout the rules and guidance. But I find it hard to be critical of them when we have a senior Government adviser who did exactly that.

My view is that instead of a 10pm curfew pubs should be open 24 hours. At least the public can be semi-controlled there. By shutting at 10, all that is going to happen is folks are going to say "to hell with the rules, let's all back to my place".

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 16:02

Wilson Philips wrote:

By shutting at 10, all that is going to happen is folks are going to say "to hell with the rules, let's all back to my place".


Which is allowed for up to six of them! It's nuts. And instead of a dozen people being in the pub 9 till 10 and then a different dozen 10 till 11 you'll have an hour of two dozen 9 till 10. And another thing, how come the bouncers at Wetherspoons don't wear masks?
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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
22nd Sep 2020 16:11

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

Which is allowed for up to six of them!

Perhaps that's why Nicola has also banned households from mixing - in a vain attempt to prevent the behaviour that I suggest. But bans are only as effective as their enforcement. I am in no doubt that those that would have broken the rules before today will continue to do so afterwards. "Rules are made to be broken"
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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By Tax Dragon
22nd Sep 2020 16:23

Let's bring Jacinda back.

She manages to get compliance by consent, which (echoing a comment above) is much the most effective form of compliance.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
22nd Sep 2020 16:36

Agreed.

I'm also intrigued as to how this is supposed to work cross-border (I guess the regulations might spell it out)

Seems pretty clear that someone living in Scotland cannot visit another household in Scotland.

But what about someone in Scotland visiting a friend/relative in England - or vice versa?

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Cheshire
22nd Sep 2020 16:19

Not just Wetherspoons.

How come no-one you see eg being reported about re other issues on the news keep 2 metres apart, or 1 metre with masks?

Two ex PM's walking shoulder to shoulder, practically hand in hand the other day, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54135231 just one example.

Maybe they are in a bubble!

Annoys me because no on seems to be setting an example, most folk are just so cavalier about it, whilst those of us who are sensible, law abiding or at risk are keeping to the rules.

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Replying to Cheshire:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 16:57

Jeezalu, is that a real photo? Now they've aged, those two look just like their Spittin' Image puppets.

I've noticed the supermarkets have adopted a more casual approach to counting people in and out, disinfecting trolleys, getting staff to wear masks and so on.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By Cheshire
22nd Sep 2020 17:29

They were cozying up on video too. Haha, hasnt that programme come back on TV?

Oh dont get me started on supermarkets. Why do couples have to go shopping together? Sod the 2 metre distancing, lets have one lurking with the trolley on one side of the aisle (usually the man), the other wandering about very slowly on the other side, whilst I have to run the gauntlet of trying to avoid their covid raddled bodies down the middle of the aisle. If they must go together, why cant one of them wait in the bloody car?!!

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Replying to Cheshire:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
22nd Sep 2020 17:55

Hang on a minute, some of us aren't allowed to go shopping on their own.

My wife always makes sure to accompany me, but gets upset when I wander off to the tv / pastie / girlie magazine aisles. And she tells me off whenever I produce my driving licence of 40 years as age verification. Or for making smart-[***] comments to the staff.

It's the loose kids that bug me. Especially when they are slapped by their overweight parents, causing them to sob and cry uncontrollably. Leave them in the car please.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
22nd Sep 2020 22:00

Or as a pub client pointed out to me today, your 2 dozen will be leaving the pub at exactly the same time as the 2 dozen from every other pub, all going to the bus stop / tram station / taxi rank(?) at the same time.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd Sep 2020 16:37

Wilson Philips wrote:
By shutting at 10, all that is going to happen is folks are going to say "to hell with the rules, let's all back to my place".

Well, there's your first mistake. The first rule of having a party is don't have it at your house.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
22nd Sep 2020 17:02

:¬)

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By Alex_T
22nd Sep 2020 15:00

Clear as mud..

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RLI
By lionofludesch
22nd Sep 2020 23:12

Some folk are clearly loving this. I called in at the Murco garage on the A487 just west of Eglwyswrw today, put my mask on to go in the shop, trod in the disinfectant tray thoughtfully left by someone who remembered foot and mouth and was then directed around the empty shop's one way route to the till where a sharp toned lady announced, unprompted, that it was her business and it was up to her to protect her staff. "You'll thank me for this one day", she told me.

I'm pretty sure I won't and, if I hadn't had the petrol already in the tank, I'd've terminated the conversation at a much earlier point.

I'n not sure who she thought she was -
Hitler, perhaps, or Genghis Khan - but I would recommend not interviewing her to find out. Just leave it as one of life's mysteries.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
23rd Sep 2020 07:13

Not sure what your point is (and I question name-calling an identifiable non-OP when we're not allowed to do that with unidentifiable OPs) but hey, I hope you feel better for having got that off your chest. I can't help wondering what you would have done with the few seconds you might have saved... perhaps put a post on Aweb?

Oh, wait, I think I see an irony. I love a good irony, me. (Oh, there's another... you will no doubt be thanked for your post, thanks you say you won't pass on to the lady that inspired you to make it.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2020 07:38

Point?

When have I ever needed a point to tell a good story?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
23rd Sep 2020 08:49

Wait a minute.... you clearly hadn't shown her the company credit card before fuelling....

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2020 10:03

I should've insisted on my right to pay by cash.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
25th Sep 2020 14:20

Just west of Eglwyswrw? You're lucky this wasn't delivered to you in welsh, Lion. Wear full PPE kit next time, just in case.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Sep 2020 17:58

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

Just west of Eglwyswrw? You're lucky this wasn't delivered to you in welsh, Lion. Wear full PPE kit next time, just in case.

My Welsh was better than hers. I've been interviewed on t'telly in Welsh.

They don't call Pembrokeshire "Little England beyond Wales" for nothing.

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By Calculatorboy
23rd Sep 2020 01:19

I think I'd dump any clients emailing me about things that have absolutely nothing to do accountancy and tax ,

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Replying to Calculatorboy:
Maytuna
By DJKL
25th Sep 2020 14:46

That would have lost me 50% of mine when I had any and I would have missed out on all the Hibs/Hearts gossip.

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