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An interesting idea.

Taxing people for breeding.

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During a conversation about climate change an interesting, if rather controversial, idea was floated regarding the tax systm which actually makes a lot of sense.

The cause of climate change is not fossil fuels, it is the overuse of fossil fuels, deforestation, etcetera, caused by overpopulation. In 1850 the population of the UK was 27 million, by the end of WW2 it was just over 40 million , and it is now set to reach 70 million in the next few years. Quite obviously this cannot continue, and equally obviously extra food production, the covering of countryside with houses and roads, and the extra energy usage is a majour contibutory factor to our rising polution.

Governments use taxation to try to affect behaviour, such as tobacco & petrol duty, alcohol taxes, congestion charges etc, yet, they continue to encourage overpopulation by rewarding people for breeding. Those who choose not to add to the propblem by not having children are actually punished by being taxed to subsidise those who do breed by paying for child benefits, education, and so on.

The radical, but perfectly sensible suggestion was that all child benefits should be scrapped, and, that whilst the basic rate of tax should remain at 20% every person who has a child should be taxed at an extra 5% for each child (% for one child 30% for two children etc) to pay for the education, medical care, and other costs to the state of their children. 

A sort of "privatisation" of breeding.

A concept which, financially, makes a good deal of sense even if it would never actually be accepted, not least because nopoliticianwould be brave enough to even consider it. If the State can use tax to control what we smoke, drink, drive, eat (proposed sugar tax), etc, why shouldn't it also use tax to control overpopulation.

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By WhichTyler
07th Jun 2019 19:43

Fertility rate is less than 2 children per woman in Europe at the moment so native population is already falling. Which is why we import young people from overseas to care for and pay pensions of the oldies...

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By Ruddles
07th Jun 2019 20:51

Comedy gold from the site's resident nutter

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By carnmores
07th Jun 2019 20:59

my first question to all climate change activists is - What caused the ice to melt last time? the forces of nature are likely to always win but i do agree that mitigation is necessary

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Replying to carnmores:
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By Jdopus
11th Jun 2019 10:23

The answer is to look at the rate of change rather than the fact the change occurs at all. The world's climate is always changing and varying and following certain long term trends, but the current rate is unprecedented.

Unsurprisingly, climate science is aware that the world's temperature has historically changed and natural variation is taken into account.

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Replying to Ruddles:
ram
By Retired Dave
07th Jun 2019 23:32

On 9-11-2018 you wrote -

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/dividends-taken-after-final-...

Ruddles wrote:

Since there would appear to be no point in contributing further, bye all - it's been fun.

What a pity you can’t keep your word.

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Replying to Retired Dave:
By Ruddles
08th Jun 2019 11:01

Consider my return an early release. I'm sure that you're familiar with the concept.

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Replying to Retired Dave:
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By atleastisoundknowledgable...
08th Jun 2019 13:30

At the time I assumed Ruddles was just talking about that thread.

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Psycho
By Wilson Philips
07th Jun 2019 21:41

I’m sure that the Archbishop of Westminster would have something to say about his flock being disproportionately taxed.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
By SteLacca
08th Jun 2019 00:36

Frankly, I could care less about what someone whose ultimate boss is a mythological being thinks.

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Replying to SteLacca:
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By carnmores
08th Jun 2019 09:01

thats a little unfair ;-) i remember from 'The Young Pope'

the question is not does god exist? just prove to me that he doesnt

this is the conundrum for all religion

(PS i believe in a higher power , sort of!)

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Replying to SteLacca:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
08th Jun 2019 11:04

Me too. I was simply making an observation.

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Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jun 2019 00:42

A more efficient proposal could be to eliminate all those who have stopped creating wealth for our great state with an upper age limit at say age 70 when they are "removed", even if still working, as obviously by that time their efficiency will be reducing-this would kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, covering both population growth and the financial burden on the state re welfare and health provision.

If you have a bit of spare time (dangerous thing to have in such a "Brave New World") might I suggest a read of Swift's "Modest Proposal", it is brief and covers a similar sort of discussion as it also concerns babies.
(Who needs STEM subjects and relevant degrees when one could have wasted a few years at university on literature, history and similar)

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By Tim Vane
08th Jun 2019 01:08

Love it when drivel is preceded with the word “obviously”. Well if you are going to listen to all that ridiculous clap trap about so called “climate change” then no wonder you come up with hare brained nanny state tax agendas. Back in your box Comrade.

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Replying to Tim Vane:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jun 2019 01:31

Really wish you had put me right on the climate change bit before I wasted all that money on my daughter getting her MA in Sustainable Development from St Andrews.

Still , it probably was not a total waste of time as whilst you are obviously not taken in most of the world is paying some attention, so plenty of job opportunities for her over the next forty years.

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/sustainable-development/sustainabl...

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Replying to DJKL:
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By SXGuy
08th Jun 2019 07:07

Did your daughter do the research herself and make her own conclusion or did she just learn what was already out there and write a paper on it?

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Replying to SXGuy:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jun 2019 09:51

She did some primary research in her undergraduate dissertation, I believe she will need to do similar with her Masters one this summer (She would possibly be so doing this weekend if she had not swanned off to London for the weekend)

Having said that current dissertation will not be on SD as such but on some aspect/aspects of Urban Planning though it may incorporate aspects of sustainability- whilst the subject area has been selected the precise question still needs to be fully formed.

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By SXGuy
08th Jun 2019 06:57

Out of all gases in the atmosphere co2 amounts to 0.2%. From that 0.2% 80% of it is naturally caused. The remaining 20% is man made.

That equates to 0.04%.

And you want to tax every child tor simply breathing? Come on. Be considerate to the planet by all means, but when people start pointing fingers to blame, thats when I get angry.

Just take a step back and actually analyse the effect we really have on the planet, then consider it this was all done as a stealth tax.

Carbon footprint trading is the biggest scam going.

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Replying to SXGuy:
ram
By Retired Dave
08th Jun 2019 09:28

SXGuy wrote:

And you want to tax every child tor simply breathing?

No - I want to tax the idiots who keep breeding when the earths population is already 100x more than it can sustain.

In 1066 the earth's population was 1/4 billion
by 1804 it was 1 billion
by 1927 it had doubled to 2 billion
by 1963 it was 3 billion
and by 1974 it was4 billion
Now it is almost 8 billion.

In my lifetime it has more than doubled and that kind of global population expansion simply is not sustainable.
Such population growth means more fossil fuels used, more cattle kept, more deforestation, and total devastation of wildlife. Half of all species on earth face imminent extinction.

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Replying to SXGuy:
ram
By Retired Dave
08th Jun 2019 09:28

SXGuy wrote:

And you want to tax every child tor simply breathing?

No - I want to tax the idiots who keep breeding when the earths population is already 100x more than it can sustain.

In 1066 the earth's population was 1/4 billion
by 1804 it was 1 billion
by 1927 it had doubled to 2 billion
by 1963 it was 3 billion
and by 1974 it was4 billion
Now it is almost 8 billion.

In my lifetime it has more than doubled and that kind of global population expansion simply is not sustainable.
Such population growth means more fossil fuels used, more cattle kept, more deforestation, and total devastation of wildlife. Half of all species on earth face imminent extinction.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By thomas34
08th Jun 2019 09:57

Be careful SXGuy. You'll frighten the climate change activists with all those facts. Please stick to the script with all the unsubstantiated rhetoric from these nutters.

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Replying to SXGuy:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jun 2019 10:01

Increment not absolute.

Does water boil at 98% (well yes if you vary pressure but otherwise no). The 2 degrees further added changes it from one state, liquid, to another state, gas from this one can deduce that in certain cases small increments over border thresholds can have very significant effects on characteristics and behaviour.

But it is all really just a big conspiracy with so much of the world involved, is that the best argument, really.

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Replying to SXGuy:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jun 2019 10:03

SXGuy wrote:

Out of all gases in the atmosphere co2 amounts to 0.2%.

It's about 400 ppm - or 0.04% actually. Though there are other greenhouse gases, such as water vapour, in the atmosphere.

Oxygen - just over 20% or more than 500 times the CO2 content.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Jun 2019 11:21

It's amazing how far a little can go. That tiny proportion of CO2 is enough to sustain huge forests.

Cut down the forests, pump up the CO2 and you change the balance. DJKL is right. It's about balance.

And the OP is right in identifying the causes.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
ram
By Retired Dave
08th Jun 2019 14:47

Nature has a way of balancing things. I would not be surprised to see a pandemic of epic proportions, something that wipes out a large proportion of the human population, to restore the balance.

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Replying to Retired Dave:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jun 2019 14:53

I suspect re that you are correct- the only question is predicting when; next week, next century, next millennium. I would be really surprised if you are not correct, in fact the only thing that might prevent it is if we say destroy most of the world's population by some other method before we get there.

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By carnmores
08th Jun 2019 15:23

Ive just finished watching Chernobyl we nearly did it then, brilliant TV Russians didn't like it blame the Yanks and are making their truthful version. It's sad move on

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By carnmores
08th Jun 2019 19:04

People are being kept alive beyond their natural lifespan partly through excessive use of antibiotics which increase the quantity of life but not the quality, this is the challenge of life itself, maybe we all become resistant to them....

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Replying to carnmores:
ram
By Retired Dave
08th Jun 2019 19:18

carnmores wrote:

People are being kept alive beyond their natural lifespan....

What is a natural lifespan? Personally I love life and have every intention of continuing to enjoy every minute.

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Replying to Retired Dave:
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By carnmores
08th Jun 2019 19:32

I would have thought that that was obvious.

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By mrme89
08th Jun 2019 21:43

How was prison? Bet it's like a wizards sleeve now.

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By Vile Nortin Naipaan
11th Jun 2019 10:31

Shame nobody came up with this idea 50-odd years ago. How different things might have been.

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Replying to Vile Nortin Naipaan:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 10:55

There is a need to look forward, as well as back.

There's not much (other than the speed it happens) to distinguish humankind's population movement from that of lemmings. We're supposed to be self-aware. Yet we bury our heads in the sand and burrow on.

Nick's "it's sad move on" comment in the context of >3bn human deaths was a particular low in this thread. Tim's "claptrap" comment was typically ignorant.

Why does partial knowledge of tax law and accountancy rules seem to make people so arrogant?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Vile Nortin Naipaan
11th Jun 2019 11:03

Humans filter. That's how humans work

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Replying to Vile Nortin Naipaan:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 11:42

Like planting roses during the Blitz.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By carnmores
11th Jun 2019 11:54

You completely misinterpreted what I was saying. No need for insults

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Replying to carnmores:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 12:05

What were you saying?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By carnmores
11th Jun 2019 16:40

I was saying that the Russians cannot accept the story as told in Chernobyl was correct, they have to twist the story to fit in with their propaganda. They should leave their revisionism and move on. It was not a comment on anything else.

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Replying to carnmores:
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By Tax Dragon
12th Jun 2019 06:51

Then I owe you an apology. The offence was just in my head (in my reading of what you said, not what you said itself). Thank you for clarifying.

I similarly cannot see where I have thrown any insults. Unlike some others in this thread... IIRC someone called climate change deniers "nutters". That's harsh, and probably insulting. The link I provided yesterday gives a deeper insight into their thinking.

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
11th Jun 2019 11:41

Flip to you all and your planet, I'm off to Mars.

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 11:43

andy is it really you?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Quack
By Constantly Confused
11th Jun 2019 15:12

Tax Dragon wrote:

andy is it really you?

Who the flippity flop liked that?!?

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 15:20

How do I know? I don't have platinum membership.

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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 13:12

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/indepth/flat-earthers-and-the-rise-of-sci...

America. Aweb. All over.

It's a good question: what would change our minds?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Vile Nortin Naipaan
11th Jun 2019 13:23

I don't want to alarm you, but there are also a couple of mad kuntz out there with big red buttons, that could annihilate us all, who are the most imminent threat to humanity. Fuch "science"!

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Replying to Vile Nortin Naipaan:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 13:55

andy?

C'mon, one of you parodies has to be andy!

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Quack
By Constantly Confused
11th Jun 2019 14:02

Tax Dragon wrote:

andy?

C'mon, one of you parodies has to be andy!

Parody sir? How dare you!

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 15:23

Tres droll but I don't believe you.

"I'm andy.partridge I'm the real andy.partridge"

"I'm Spartacus" "No I'm Spartacus"

Or, for Python fans...

"I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
11th Jun 2019 15:33

"Senses working overtime
Trying to tell the difference 'tween the goods and grime
Turds and treasure and there's one, two, three, four, five"

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Tax Dragon
11th Jun 2019 15:57

And I thought I had multiple personalities... YOU'RE ALL ANDY BLOODY PARTRIDGE!!

Only took me 7 years (time apportioning in years) to work it out!

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
11th Jun 2019 16:27

No, it is far worse than that, all posts on Accounting Web are actually your own, Accounting Web is a manifestation of your own making,mere figment of your imagination and the various posters purporting to post are each distinct, yet identical, segments of your own consciousness.

On the minus side you are therefore obviously insane, on the positive side all the brilliant posts on tax, all being made by you, demonstrate your all encompassing command of all matters taxation and accounting.

Of course this latter point does strongly suggest that as no human individual could possibly have that scale of knowledge you are evidently an AI presence.

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