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Ancient basis period

Memory is extremely foggy

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We have a client who has ceased self-employment in 2019/20, and I'm trying to establish if there are any overlap profits. Nothing on our files, but HMRC have been kind enough to send me extracts of the 96/7 ands 97/8 SATRs.

96/7 has a two year basis period, adjusted on a straight time apportionment to arrive at the profits. It also indicates S/E commenced prior to 6 April 1994.

Self-assessment was introduced in 95/6, but there is no 95/6 record for the client.

However, I seem to remember some adjustment of basis periods on the introduction of self-assessment, but for the life of me I can't remember any of the details.

In this case, I would have expected there to be a 95/6 SATR, and possibly any overlap was calculated on earlier (pre-SA) Returns, in which case details are lost in the midsts of time. However, it still leaves me with a nagging feeling that profits for the year ended (in this case) 31 August '95 have never been assessed, but this is subject to my question.

Can anyone remember what happened on the switch to self-assessment?

Replies (21)

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Scooby
By gainsborough
03rd Jul 2020 08:40

See Stephen Kendrew's comment on this previous thread:
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/overlap-relief-4

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Replying to gainsborough:
By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 08:51

Excellent, thank you so much.

And now I have enough information to work it out.

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Replying to SteveHa:
Scooby
By gainsborough
03rd Jul 2020 09:18

That's great and it was a good memory jogger for me too as my memory of that time was also foggy!

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Replying to gainsborough:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 10:31

I thought it was only said of the 60s that if you remembered them you were not there, I was there in the 90s and can barely remember anything detailed; during that transition I probably ought to have been smoking something.

I do recall the amount of work HMRC put in on the transition, the training, the big white covered books they issued, the technical inspectors you called if you did not understand certain aspects, much is changed these days.

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Replying to DJKL:
Scooby
By gainsborough
03rd Jul 2020 10:48

You can say that again. I phoned HMRC a couple of years ago and the advisor I spoke to asked me what I meant by the letters CGT - I had to check it wasn't April Fools' Day.

Those white books were great - I suspect I have a few still lurking in the loft somewhere.

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Replying to gainsborough:
avatar
By SXGuy
03rd Jul 2020 11:09

Still have some in my office, going up to 2010. not of much use, but look pretty.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Tax Dragon
03rd Jul 2020 10:52

DJKL wrote:

….much is changed these days.

Isn't that the whole point of self assessment? They've replaced the big white covered books (sound awful!) of a few 100 pages with online manuals with 10s of 1000s of pages and said "over to you".

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 11:11

I may actually have one of them in the office, I vaguely remember being lent/given one by a partner of the firm I had been with and think it might be in the bookcase in my office. (which I am now really starting to miss, working from home in such a small room , with paper all around, is really losing its attraction)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Scooby
By gainsborough
03rd Jul 2020 11:18

Tax Dragon wrote:

DJKL wrote:

….much is changed these days.

Isn't that the whole point of self assessment? They've replaced the big white covered books (sound awful!) of a few 100 pages with online manuals with 10s of 1000s of pages and said "over to you".

Sigh...yes.....I really miss the days when there were just three books of tax legislation and you could find the answer you were looking for relatively quickly.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Tax Dragon
03rd Jul 2020 10:58

DJKL wrote:

...much is changed these days.

This thread, 200-odd views.
The thread Scoobs dug out (good boy), 22k+.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 11:11

Tax Dragon wrote:

DJKL wrote:

...much is changed these days.

This thread, 200-odd views.
The thread Scoobs dug out (good boy), 22k+.

What's the record ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
03rd Jul 2020 11:17

Half a million plus.

But that was about apples. This and the 22k+ thread are pears.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Southwestbeancounter
03rd Jul 2020 14:11

Oh yes, the big white books - I loved them (sad I know)!

They were really useful and had a certain feel about them - I've still got them on the shelf in my office - the various technical (green and white smaller) ones showing the basis of assessment from 1995 and the big white ones going up to 2010!!

Oh those were the days!!

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Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 11:15

How to Dislay Negative Numbers in Excel

532565

Seems to be out in front

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Tax Dragon
03rd Jul 2020 11:20

(And with that realisation, some of my recent jokes should make a bit more sense.... Doesn't make 'em funny, of course, but better a bad joke you understand than one you don't.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 11:32

If I could get a thread going concerning penguins it might be able to beat negative excel numbers thread, nearly everyone loves penguins.

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Replying to DJKL:
By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 11:37

As they should.

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By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 11:39

As a slight aside on this, HMRC have been remarkably quick about it. I only rang them on Monday and the info arrived (by post) yesterday.

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Replying to SteveHa:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 11:58

Are you sure when you rang them it was not someone pretending to be with HMRC, that sounds really suspicious.

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Replying to DJKL:
By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 12:52

Dunno, I think HMRC are currently feeling more cooperative. Over the past couple of days I've spent the best part of two hours on the phone to a VAT Inspector regarding a client who's previous accountants were less than cooperative and supplied zero handover information.

Despite not having been able to get a VAT authorisation in place (we obviously need registration details for that), on the basis of a brief email from the client the Inspector has given me all the info I need to get the authorisation, is sending me copies of correspondence related to a VAT "enquiry" (It isn't really, but there will be penalties) and has generally been happy to just chew the fat.

I think he's also appreciative that he's dealing with someone who will get the issues sorted, now.

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blue sheep
By NH
03rd Jul 2020 12:18

luckily I started a couple of years after Self Assessment, hardly ever have to deal with overlap profits these days, thanks to Gordon Brown we incorporated en masse, happy days

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