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Another CT41G comment!

Another CT41G comment!

Is anyone else having this issue or is it just me?

Example: New client comes to you after having set up a Limited Company online somehow. You become their agent and want to make sure they have registered as trading and submitted the old CT41G information. They think they have but are maybe not sure because the old form has been replaced with an ambiguous kind of letter suggesting they do it online if they haven’t already done so. They often even presume they have registered all relevant information because the letter contains a UTR therefore they must have registered, Right? (Wrong!).

Being the kind of caring adviser that I am, I like to make sure for them, but the only way I can find out every time is by calling the new centralised HMRC number and going through a painful conversation with somebody who doesn’t know what you are asking half the time, in an attempt to find out. In fact I have already been told on one occasion that HMRC had the info when in fact it later transpired they did not!

I have even been told conflicting answers from operators along the lines of:

Answer 1: “If the accounting periods are showing as LIVE on the agent portal then they must have registered their info, otherwise they would be dormant”

Answer 2: “All the new company’s accounting periods show as LIVE as default, so that doesn’t tell you if they have filed CT41G information”

I myself have found answer 2 to coincide with my experiences and I know for a fact that companies can be showing as live on the agent portal even when HMRC do not hold CT41G information. So has anyone else got any comments on this or have any pointers that I might be missing to prevent these time wasting calls for both me and HMRC.

Something that shows whether CT41G information has been filed or not on the portal is surely the answer, but presumably faaaaaaar too complex to add!


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By refs8
11th Jan 2013 12:05

Phone calls I try to avoid

To be honest I would write to the HMRC and ask them to confirm receipt and remind them a couple of times and moan like hell if there issue a penalty for this.

We should have to but that is how we tackle it hope it helps.

Thanks (1)
11th Jan 2013 12:22


Well done.  hopefully someone will come up with the proper answer on this one!  Glad you have re-opened this.  I produced a CT41g with taxcalc and posted it off.  No idea if I did the right thing!

Its a bit like the vat applications, totally different.

Keep the industry in the dark, mushroom method?



Thanks (1)
11th Jan 2013 13:40

Default dates

If the client has not supplied the information to register for CT, HMRC could only use the defaults for setting up the live CTAPs - one year from the date of incorporation and a short period to the end of the month.  Although some companies may commence trading immediately and many will not change their default accounting date, if the defaults are the live dates set up by HMRC, it would be a fair indication that the client has not registered.

Count yourself lucky that the client knew his UTR so that you could register as the agent.  Our usual problem is that the client denies all knowledge of having received the CT41G letter and does not even know what a UTR is, so we can neither register him for CT nor as his agent.

Thanks (1)
11th Jan 2013 13:52


Hello Euan

But what is your understanding on supplying the CT41g.  It was easy before as there was an actual form.  Do you print one out and post?  I know revenue refer to online but I tryed it through the agent site and got totally lost!


Thanks (0)
11th Jan 2013 16:58


It can be a bit confusing about the agent/client terminology, so don't read the text too closely.  Just log on to your agent Online Services menu and then proceed as if you are the client.  It is "Register for HMRC taxes" twice and "Next" 4 times before you get to choose which taxes you want to register the client for.  You need to say that you (as the client) do not have a Government Gateway account, so set one up with your choice of password for the client and don't forget to print the page with the User ID.  I tend to give my own e-mail address unless the client is particularly clued up.  Just keep on going!

I have managed to register a client for VAT, complete the Property questionnaire and file the form to opt to tax, all in one sitting, using the new online system.

Thanks (1)
11th Jan 2013 17:28

New system

Thanks Euan


yes I understand what you mean.  I have done a few VAT registrations with the new system.  that`s fairly seamless except for the new questions about change of name etc.  It sounds as though you use the same system for CT41g, so I will give it a go

If a beautiful woman tells me what to do, I always comply!

Thanks (0)
11th Jan 2013 17:56

I find the agent site ok to use and I am more than happy to supply the CT41G info online as it saves time and costs for everyone.

But I don't believe that HMRC have thought through properly this new approach and given consideration to the fact that newly registered owners of companies often don't understand the terminology or what is required of them at the outset.

If they register their own company through Companies House, I believe that they are now given an option to register for taxes and supply the CT41G info at that stage. Then regardless of whether they do or not, they receive this new standard letter prompting them to go online and file their info etc if they haven't already done so. How confusing is that for a newbie!

They get a UTR, so even if they haven't made use of the option, they can wrongly think they have done all that is required of them. Or they think they haven't done what is required even if they have!!

Then we as agents have no idea what they have done either and there is no quick and simple way to find out.

Surely if HMRC want to send letters out to all new companies regardless, why don't they just get rid of the 'option' at Companies House to prevent confusion and send a standard letter out along the lines of:

"You must now file CT41G information and register as trading within 3 months of incorporation, you can do it in either of the following ways...."

The more options you give people, the more complicated a system becomes!

I would quite happily just fill in the register for taxes section in the agent portal for all new clients where there is confusion, but there is quite a bit of info needed and it takes time, plus you might file different information to what the client originally did (if they have done it without properly knowing). However, this might actually take less time then calling or writing to HMRC for a definitive answer!

Does anyone see that approach causing a problem if the filing of CT41G info is duplicated?

Thanks (0)
18th Jan 2013 09:42

Just in case you thought I was being fussy!

See this post on UK Business Forums:

Proves my point perfectly I think!

Is there any way to give this kind of feedback to HMRC?

The standard feedback forms on the main HMRC website are no use at all (standard questions etc).

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