Share this content
0
1271

Any SA software to extract PAYE income from HMRC?

Are HMRC planning to show PAYE income for clients under the HMRC agent account?

Didn't find your answer?

Search AccountingWEB

Hi all

We complete SA tax returns for our clients and have come across a fair few clients where they do not have their PAYE income (payslips/P45/P60’s). We usually ring the tax office to obtain the information which takes a long time to obtain (waiting on the phone or they insist on posting a hard copy to us).  I am aware that a client can set up a HMRC personal tax account and can view their PAYE income including the taxes suffered from there. This makes it easier for a person that use their PTA to complete their return.

However, we as agents are not be able to view this information through our HMRC Agent Account (ASA). Are HMRC planning to make this PAYE income available to view online through the Agent Account any time soon? If yes, do you know how soon they are planning to implement this?  I know there is limited information on Tax Return options for Class 2 NI, State Pension, etc.

If HMRC are planning to add this information onto the agents system, then is any forum members aware of any commercial SA return software that can extract this information from the HMRC agent account and input it into the relevant SA return pages? (by say a click of a button, etc). The software we use at present for filing does not have these features and if this feature is available in another software we would consider that software for our future needs to save time in the long run.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Replies

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
10th May 2019 15:20

Many commercial SA systems already have this, e.g. BTC.

Note it's not 100% reliable, mainly down to HMRC rather than the software company.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Patss
to Wanderer
10th May 2019 16:19

That's great. We won't be relying solely on the HMRC figures as we know they're not always 100% accurate.
Thank you for your help.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Patss
10th May 2019 16:28

Some common problems you will find (not software faults, just the way info is presented by HMRC):-

Never gives State Retirement Pension.
Always combines occupational pension figures into totals whereas the return requires disclosure of individual items.
Often misses an employment income source.
Occasionally mis-classifies an occupational pension as employment income.

Surprisingly still a useful tool though.

Thanks (1)
10th May 2019 15:26

Why Anon?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By daniel_
10th May 2019 15:39

Taxfiler connects to the HMRC data to view it.

It doesn't have 'one click' to copy it to the return, probably because the HMRC data is not 100% reliable and should be checked properly before including in a return.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Patss
to daniel_
10th May 2019 16:20

Thank you

Thanks (0)
to daniel_
13th May 2019 18:03

We found that for the majority of 2018 SA1 registrations there is no data to display! I think it's time for hmrc to include optional UTR field on the monthly FPS. Maybe it would be easier to connect the NI & UTR on their obsolete system....

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AW71
10th May 2019 17:43

The only trouble is HMRC don't update the system until several months after April so you're stuck if needing the info before July at least

Thanks (0)
to AW71
10th May 2019 17:59

HMRC responses on the Agent Forum are vague. They say:

"I'm afraid we cannot give a definitive date when an individuals P14/pay and tax details are posted to their record. "

"The commencement of our processes leading to reconciliation cannot start before the 19th April as this is the last date for submission of FPS and EPS. Reconciliation of an individuals record takes place each year between May and October. This reconciles the weekly/monthly returns with the FPS/EPS and matches the information to an individuals record. "

"As outlined in our original response HMRC is not obliged to supply either pay and tax, employment history or RTI month 12 information as this is not a function for collecting and managing tax. This information should already be held by the customer. Where it appears this is not the case, HMRC will provide this to the customer so that this can be used for any current and future reasons.
All we can advise is that you obtain the information from your client's in the meantime or keep trying the API."

and

"all returns of data have to be reviewed to determine if errors have occurred. Some are blatantly obvious others are not. Currently this sits at circa 70 million items which have to be processed in conjunction with all the other demands on our IT."

As I recall, last year information started to show up around August/September time

Thanks (0)
10th May 2019 18:13

HMRC have no plans to extend these facilities into their agent account portal. My understanding is the opposite: they will eventually close their own filing portal for agents and it will only be usable by individuals- they have already done this for CT and I suspect SA will happen after the full transition to the ASA.

Thanks (0)
to Tim Vane
10th May 2019 20:24

I understand that they may be trialling something through Agent Services Account, so who knows

Thanks (0)
to Tim Vane
16th May 2019 10:47

The whole point of HMRC's new approach under the Agent Services Account (ASA) is that it is merely a data access point and that third party software is used to submit and read client tax data. HMRC will not be providing the sort of reports within the ASA that it did (and still does) under the old Government Gateway portal.

Many accountants on here bemoan that fact but I am excited at the prospect, as it means that HMRC are to stop wasting resources on a lousy online portal and will, instead, focus their attention on developing deep links to their data by opening up more and more API's for third party, specialist software companies to create much better tools for us to use. Yes, there will be a cost to that. But it's not expensive and, if you choose to provide professional advisory services to clients, you must expect there to be costs.

Thanks (0)
avatar
10th May 2019 20:35

This seems relevant to me:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-software-to-help-complete-your-clients-s...

This is more orientated towards people like me (programmers), but covers the same things.
https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/guides/self-assessment-end-to-end-...

I am, however, only developing this as part of the MTD SA system not the old system.

Thanks (0)
16th May 2019 13:27

We us PTP. The first year it had the API for downloading pay and tax, P11D, tax refunded, marriage allowance and C2NICs was 2017.

The API only returns data when HMRC have carried out a PAYE reconciliation. Neither the taxpayer nor agent have any control over when the PAYE reconciliation occurs. For most taxpayers it is June to September.

In 2017 we received our first data on 18/05/17. Initially it retrieved data for about a quarter of clients and by September it was over half the clients.

The 2018 API didn't retrieve the first data until 04/07/18: almost 2 months later than the previous year. Initially it only retrieved data for about 10% of clients and by September it was only at a quarter of clients.

You can see the 2018 performance was considerably worse than 2017. The API was very useful 2017, not so for 2018. Part of the problem is that HMRC is that for SA cases HMRC is delaying reconciliation until the SA return is received. Chicken and egg: we need the data to submit the return, HMRC won't issue the data until HMRC have reconciled, HMRC won't reconcile until they've received the return.

The 2019 API is in our software and we can run it but it has yet to retrieve any data other than C2NICs. Many agents have asked HMRC on the Agent forum when the 2019 API will retrieve data but HMRC won't say when.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Patss
to kevinringer
16th May 2019 14:38

Thank you for your detailed response.

Do other practitioners also find the API coming to the commercial software at around similar times to PTP? Or does your software show the information sooner? If yes, when?
Which commercial software do you (other practitioners) use?

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Patss
16th May 2019 16:04

It's the Same interface into the same data so there is no reason for any difference.

Thanks (0)
Share this content