Anyone had much luck in disputing RTI?

Am dying here ...

Didn't find your answer?

A client of mine has had something go very wrong with their PAYE records at HMRC.   Instead of the usual £27k payable for month 4 in 2018, HMRC thinks it is £54k.   Same payroll system all year.  I've only sent one RTI report for that month, and the report ties up with the payroll I processed, but HMRC is adamant that their records are correct.

I raised a dispute of the RTI data in November, and they confirmed two weeks ago that it's still there and not actioned.

Meanwhile the Debt Management department are hassling my client for payment, calling the Director personally at work, and sending multiple debt collection letters.

Calling Debt Management doesn't help as 'they can't see that a dispute has been raised'.   Calling the PAYE helpline, they go through the questionnaire as to why I think it's wrong, and then they say "oh yes, we see a dispute was raised in November".

Anyone got any advice that I could use?  Or even just some horror stories of their own to cheer me up?

 

Replies (15)

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By ohgoodgodno
27th Feb 2018 17:30

why don't you just refile month 4 as a correction to an earlier return??

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Replying to ohgoodgodno:
By Michael Beaver
27th Feb 2018 17:37

My software doesn't let me do that, as I've processed later months. I'd have to reverse months 5 to 11 to get back to month 4, and then hope that everything stayed the same, and reprocessing joiners and leavers through to month 11 again. 20+ employees in the payroll.

And I'd be scared of making a bad problem worse.

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By Wanderer
27th Feb 2018 18:11

Ask (forcefully) for it to be referred to the 'disputed charges team'. That 'should' stop Debt Management chasing according to this article:-
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/business/finance-strategy/what-you-need-...

If you are confident your filing are correct I would suggest that re-filings are NOT done, also no EYUs.

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Replying to Wanderer:
By Michael Beaver
27th Feb 2018 18:20

Brilliant, thank you!

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RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2018 18:42

Refiling can be the cause of the problem.

It was for me a few years ago but maybe they have that little bug sorted.

Another one was allocating squad numbers. We'd always been happy to use names as it seems more personal but the pension folk insisted that everyone had to have numbers - NI number wouldn't do - consequently HMRC duplicated all their year to date pay.

Much easier with RTI ..........

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
27th Feb 2018 18:59

@lion - I think refiling could be the problem - well it is for me.

Submitted an amended RTI return (v small adjustment)and heyho HMRC doubled the liability.

@michael - did you submit an amendment?

My story is very similar to yours - Debt Mgmt chasing, raised a dispute in September - still not resolved.

I know I'm right and HMRC is wrong.

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Replying to Kent accountant:
By Michael Beaver
27th Feb 2018 20:04

Nope no amendment. I've had the problems with changing employee numbers (never again!) and submitting a correction which duplicated everything (never again!) and duplicated the corrected employee (never again!).

This is completely out of the blue, and as far as I can see completely with HMRC.

#RTIisrubbish

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By GW
27th Feb 2018 20:41

We had one earlier in 2017/18 where, for no readily apparant reason, HMRC picked up the cumulative totals for the year rather than the month's submission. Having got it passed to the disputed charges team it was corrected three months later, not by adjusting the incorrect month but by putting through a negative amount three months later. Although the cumulative totals were right, HMRC were charging interest on the earlier still overstated amount, it took another month to get the interest removed.
Last year we were getting one of these every couple of months (on different payrolls), but this does seem to be improving.

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
27th Feb 2018 20:48

RTI is riddled with problems and errors right left and centre, brushed under the table by HMRC.

In this situation I would already be on a COMPLAINT CASE - capital letters on the e-mail or letter - and POTENTIAL COMPENSATION CLAIM.

I don't pussyfoot around when these numpties can't be arzzed to fix their own stupid system 2 or 3 months down the line. If I know the fault is with them - and let's face it that is 98% likely on average - I go in hard and I follow up with an invoice for compensation for extra costs I have billed.

If more of us did this, in my view, we'd have enough of a hit to HMRC's stupid results that the might allocate some reasource to start fixing all the myriad bugs in their rubbishy systems. No pain no gain.

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Replying to mr. mischief:
By Michael Beaver
27th Feb 2018 20:58

Has such an approach worked for you in the past in relation to RTI?

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By BigBadWolf
27th Feb 2018 23:19

try contacting the Agent Account Manager service https://www.gov.uk/guidance/agent-account-managers-in-hmrc
and keep chasing them every two days

this helped me in a similar case

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By bernard michael
28th Feb 2018 10:06

If you want one on the opposite side of of the coin
We operate payroll for a client with 6 employees. RTIs filed religiously and up to date. In the last 18 months we have received letters from HMRC saying the client is in credit by varying amounts from £1700 to £3000. They insist we check all our records and re-submit to correct the "error". We've checked twice and found no problems so are ignoring HMRC entreaties to sort out their [***]-up

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Replying to bernard michael:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Feb 2018 10:24

I myself am bring constantly told that I'm £33 in credit.

But I'm not.

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
28th Feb 2018 14:01

Yes it has, several times I have had compensation and every single time the AAM people - sorry I should have mentioned I raise this stuff with them - have got on the case, and mostly whatever numpty at Benton Park or wherever has then got their finger out and done something.

Maybe it helps to have a track record of following up with compensation claims, but my complaints are dealt with at 100mph compared to the normal utterly rubbishy service from HMRC.

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By David Heaton
01st Mar 2018 12:29

If raising a formal dispute about the charge has not worked, make a formal complaint. The more people do this, the sooner HMRC will be forced to make RTI work as it should.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/c....

All kinds of inputs or changed inputs can cause duplication: TUPE transfers, changing employee ID numbers, changing employee names, addresses or NINOs, changing payroll provider, including pay and tax from previous employments (which, of course, you must do to deduct the correct amount of PAYE where there is a cumulative code ...). Look at the December 2017 Employer Bulletin, pages 3 and 4, for some pointers to where employer inputs cannot be dealt with as expected by RTI. You may be able to spot whether there was something in the offending month's (or indeed a later month's) submission that RTI has interpreted in a way you didn't expect.

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