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ARE ACCOUNTANCY BODIES CONFLICTED

Do ACCA/ICAEW THINK INSTITUTIONS ARE BIASED IN FAVOUR OF BIG 4 & AGAINST SMALL PRACTITIONERS

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Hi

Do members think ACCA/ICAEW has a conflict of interest in considering the interests of the big4 and small practitioners ?

They have members who work in big4 practices so would not want to rock the boat by having policies which favour small practices .

These interests are not reconcilable. Should the small practice arms of ACCA/ICAEW be demerged with their own chief executive ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Replies (37)

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By Vaughan Blake1
28th Jun 2019 11:27

I think that it is more of a 'blind spot' than a conflict.

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By Jdopus
28th Jun 2019 11:56

That would imply that there's some conflict between their duties to the big four and their duties to small practices.

They aren't conflicted, they almost exclusively represent the big four and don't really give a damn about small practice. We don't throw money at them like the big four do.

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By MissAccounting
28th Jun 2019 12:12

Dont think there is a conflict they just dont give a [***] about us little guys!

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By paul.benny
28th Jun 2019 13:23

A majority of ICAEW members work outside public practice. As one of those, I would say that my institute is dominated by those in practice - Big4, Top 10 and all the rest.

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By Q1
28th Jun 2019 14:48

Hi

so, therefore I presume, you think, small practice regulation should be demerged with its own chief executive within Icaew / acca so that pro small practice policies can be pursued ,even if they don't favour the big4.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
28th Jun 2019 17:26

Whilst in business I had little to do with them.

But in practice, I've always found the ICAEW very supportive of various issues I have had.

I was invited to a "round table" a couple of years ago in my local town and they were genuinely trying to get to know about small practitioners and what they needed from them.

Sometimes they make pronouncements i disagree with, but so what? it would be unlikely I would agree with them all of them time.

Any specific beefs you have, or is it just "time for a rant and fed up with Brexit/MTD?"

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By Q1
29th Jun 2019 09:13

Thanks for your interest IRSKTB.

Over the years there has been a dumbing down of
small practitioners by ACCA/ICAEW.

As stated above ACCA/ICAEW don't give a xxxxx about small practitioners. Members work for GLOBAL big4 firms and uk small practitioners don't figure in their policies .ACCA sells itself as a global body of accountants but is only recognised in the UK.. They are trying to appeal to global big4 firms which doesn't make sense as ACCA is only recognised in the UK and this is the case because it carries the Royal Charter .

As an example .Local authorities can now appoint private sector auditors. ACCA/ICAEW has not publicised
this 50m market to small practitioners which at the moment is stitched up by the big4 fatcats.

An incentivised demerged small practitioner chief executive would pursue this opportunity without fear.

I wanted to gauge interest and possibly try to get a resolution passed at the 2019 AGM.

If members have experience of getting resolutions passed at ACCA AGMS I would be pleased to hear.

Thanks for reading and your comments .

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
30th Jun 2019 16:59

Q1 wrote:
Members work for GLOBAL big4 firms and uk small practitioners don't figure in their policies.

Don't forget there many firms between the Big 4 and small practitioners.

Quote:

ACCA sells itself as a global body of accountants but is only recognised in the UK.

You might want to take a look at the Wikipedia page which lists out the global recognition and the numbers of members and students across various countries.

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Local authorities can now appoint private sector auditors. ACCA/ICAEW has not publicised
this 50m market to small practitioners which at the moment is stitched up by the big4 fatcats.

Most local authority auditors are appointed by the PSAA. From the 486 listed on their website, it appears that only of the Big 4 has any local authority audits. I'm sure if you visit the PSAA website, you can find how to qualify. That said, I doubt that most small firms have the resources to audit most local authorities.

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Replying to Q1:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
01st Jul 2019 12:09

No idea what exactly happened in the interval since but the non big four firm I apprenticed with were doing local authority auditing of some of the Strathclyde local government districts back in the 1980s. (Back when it was a big seven/eight and we were a circa top twenty five firm -Hodgson Impey) I appreciate Councils etc got merged into unitary authorities in the 1990s so suspect this market closed after I left them.

We back then in fact had a manager who held the CIPFA qualification , he was specially recruited for the local authority work we then did.

It is not impossible for really small firms to get quasi government work, the two partner firm I was with in the early 1990s landed at tender the internal audit function for a Non-Departmental Public Body ,which I recall back then was a decent fee, circa £24k per annum.

Is it really the role of an institute to spell out such opportunities to their members, certainly ICAS never did re the firms I was with but they still landed such work?

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By Q1
30th Jun 2019 18:29

Hi PB

No other country gives practicing rights other than UK.
This is logical as ACCA carries the Queens Charter which would be a challenge to other countries sovereignty .

Every country has its own requirements and ACCA is not one of them .

Take USA.Our closest ali which recognises CPAs .

ACCA may be guilty of mis selling ,apart from ACCAs who move abroad, one would be advised to take the local qualification.

LAs have the option to join the PSAA scheme or appoint their own auditor. No publicity has been given by ACCA and only Big4 firms are currently on the PSAA list.

It is also anti competitive and has been referred to the CMA for regulations .NO TENDERING EXERCISE WAS UNDERTAKEN.

Smaller firms have the resources.ACCA has a separate public sector division.

Would you support a practicing arm demerger ? There is clearly a conflct of interest.

LAs don't have to join the PSAA scheme.

I disagree smaller firms don't have the resources. ACCA has a public sector arm and LA audit personnel can be recruited .

CMA is investigating possible monopoly power by the big4 in the LAA market.

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 07:13

Q1 wrote:

No other country gives practicing rights other than UK.

The ACCA qualification is legally recognized by all member countries of the European Union under the Mutual Recognition Directive. This recognition extends to the European Economic Area nations and Switzerland. For example, a holder of the ACCA could practice as an accountant in all member countries of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland.

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ACCA may be guilty of mis selling ,apart from ACCAs who move abroad, one would be advised to take the local qualification.

Maybe you should be broadcasting this to the tens of thousands of ACCA members and students in China, Malaysia, Pakistan, etc.

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There are only 8 firms listed on the PSAA website .


So not stitched up by the Big 4 then?

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This ...is being investigated by the CMA.

Could you point me to this investigation in the CMA's current case list? I might like to join you in making representations.

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By Q1
30th Jun 2019 17:49

Hi PB

No other country gives practicing rights other than UK.
This is logical as ACCA carries the Queens Charter which would be a challenge to other countries sovereignty .

Every country has its own requirements and ACCA is not one of them .

Take USA.Our closest ali which recognises CPAs .

ACCA may be guilty of mis selling ,apart from ACCAs who move abroad, one would be advised to take the local qualification.

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By Q1
30th Jun 2019 17:50

Hi PB

No other country gives practicing rights other than UK.
This is logical as ACCA carries the Queens Charter which would be a challenge to other countries sovereignty .

Every country has its own requirements and ACCA is not one of them .

Take USA.Our closest ali which recognises CPAs .

ACCA may be guilty of mis selling ,apart from ACCAs who move abroad, one would be advised to take the local qualification.

Thanks (0)
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By Q1
30th Jun 2019 17:51

Hi PB

No other country gives practicing rights other than UK.
This is logical as ACCA carries the Queens Charter which would be a challenge to other countries sovereignty .

Every country has its own requirements and ACCA is not one of them .

Take USA.Our closest ali which recognises CPAs .

ACCA may be guilty of mis selling ,apart from ACCAs who move abroad, one would be advised to take the local qualification.

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 10:49

Hi PB

I think you have been sold a few pups.

RE EU. After 31.10.19 passported qualifications will depend on future Brexit negotiations .

It is quite right you can have an ACCA office in EU Countries but you would need to comply with each countries practicing regulations.

Singapore has forced its own students onto SICA qualifications .

Pakistan has the PakistanICA.

You can email CMA and refer them to the ongoing investigation .

Would you vote for a demerged small practice arm with its own chief executive .

Current ACCA CEO thinks she is a big4 partner earning half a million pounds a year .

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 11:56

Q1 wrote:

It is quite right you can have an ACCA office in EU Countries but you would need to comply with each countries practicing regulations.

True in practically every regulated field. Even though there is mutual recognition of qualifications, you would expect a practitioner to have demonstrable knowledge of local tax etc.

Your point is?

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Would you vote for a demerged small practice arm with its own chief executive .

No.

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Current ACCA CEO thinks she is a big4 partner earning half a million pounds a year .

Are you truing to say that your CEO is deluded (because she isn’t a Big 4 partner). Or poorly paid?

Mr/s Q1 - I'll really not sure what you are trying to say with this thread as your remarks have wandered far and wide. If your complaint is that small practitioners are neglected by your professional body, I’m sorry to break the news, but you’re a minority. Less than a quarter of ACCA members and slightly more ICAEW members work in public practice *. I couldn’t find more granular information, but since the large firms are also the largest employers, it seems likely that relatively few (5-10%?) members of each body work in small practice.
- - - -
* source FRC “key facts and trends in accountancy profession”

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 11:20

Hi

The reference at CMA is DC-3289

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 11:20

Hi

The reference at CMA is DC-3289

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 11:37

Google isn't giving me anything under that reference, nor is a search of all open cases on the CMA website. Could you provide a direct link?

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 11:40

hi pb

Its an internal CMA reference

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 11:41

hi pb

Its an internal CMA reference

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 11:58

I still can't find any evidence of this enquiry - not even a news story about it.

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 12:46

hi pb

is it not obvious from the above ?

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 12:46

hi pb

is it not obvious from the above ?

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 13:38

No

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 13:52

Hi PB

could I respectfully point you to the question title ?

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 14:34

Q1 wrote:

Hi PB

could I respectfully point you to the question title ?

Have I missed something?

You said the local authority audit market is stitched up by the Big 4.

It's not.

You said it's being investigated by the CMA.

It's not*

(* I've not been able to find any evidence of this and you have been unable or unwilling to provide a link to any evidence)

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 14:43

hi pb

One can take a horse to water...…….

WATCH DOGS REQUIRED NOT POODLES

I guess you're one of the aweb troublemakers

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Replying to Q1:
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By paul.benny
01st Jul 2019 15:26

I've now no idea what you're on about.

But if calling out inaccurate statements makes me a troublemaker, I plead guilty.

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Replying to Q1:
By Duggimon
01st Jul 2019 15:40

I think you can take it as read that everyone here agrees with Paul and thinks you're a crackpot.

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 17:03

I M NOT ENGAGING WITH YOUR TROUBLE MAKING

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Replying to Q1:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
01st Jul 2019 18:54

O dear what can the matter be
You appear to have lost an apostrophe
Should we all display much more empathy
Shouting with caps lock full on.

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By Red Leader
01st Jul 2019 17:17

Member since 28.6.19.

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 17:25

IVE REPRTED YOU TO AWEB AS YOU'RE ACTING IN CONCERT

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Replying to Q1:
By Red Leader
01st Jul 2019 21:12

That's because we're all at Glasto, man!

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By Q1
01st Jul 2019 22:19

give aweb readers a break and stay there

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Richard Hattersley
By Richard Hattersley
02nd Jul 2019 09:03

Thread closed

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