are accountancy bodies keeping up with the pace of change?

are accountancy bodies keeping up with the pace...

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Moving forward with constant changes in our sector, I am beginning to start to wonder whether ACCA, ICAEW, etc are lagging behind on the pace at which our sector is moving and whether this itself is going to start to cause problems.

I feel that the old rules that still exist are simply be coming out dated and this in itself is raising the expectation gaps between client and accountant.

What are others views or is it just simply me.

Replies (35)

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
19th Mar 2015 19:37

Spot on

I can't speak for the ICAEW but, for me, in my practice life, the ACCA in it's literature, marketing and dreadful series of websites has drifted off to another planet and over the past 20 years had become completely irrelevant to my business life.

I gave up my registration and letters in December, and to their credit, they asked me why (even though their email was couched in terms of asking me why I was giving up as a student!).  So I told them, and to their debit, they said nothing.

 

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By MDK45
19th Mar 2015 20:57

I agree. The ACCA has ceased to offer me anything relevant or of value anymore. they charge me hundreds of pounds each year whilst they go on 'jollys' to far flung places like Malaysia or Ghana recruiting yet more students with a focus on quantity rather than quality.

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By Cloudcounter
19th Mar 2015 22:39

Ahead of the game

The ICAEW is certainly ahead of the game when it comes to increasing fees.  More than inflation every year - these junkets must be expensive

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
20th Mar 2015 00:16

ACCA has just got too big

As an ACCA member, I feel they have simply got too big.

The accaglobal.com website is a multinational maze.  What you are looking for, might be on there or it might not - but good luck finding it, if it is.

I barely bother reading the monthly journal these days, as I struggle to tease out any CPD that is relevant to a small practitioner in UK public practice.  The latest achievement that the journal trumpeted is some sort of joint venture with Afghanistan ... as if rigorous accounting standards will keep the Taliban at bay.

ACCA was born in the age of the British Empire.  I'm not sure that know that age ended a long time ago.

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By Jekyll and Hyde
20th Mar 2015 04:13

agreed

Locutus wrote:

As an ACCA member, I feel they have simply got too big.

The accaglobal.com website is a multinational maze.  What you are looking for, might be on there or it might not - but good luck finding it, if it is.

I barely bother reading the monthly journal these days, as I struggle to tease out any CPD that is relevant to a small practitioner in UK public practice.  The latest achievement that the journal trumpeted is some sort of joint venture with Afghanistan ... as if rigorous accounting standards will keep the Taliban at bay.

ACCA was born in the age of the British Empire.  I'm not sure that know that age ended a long time ago.

I completely agree and the non relevant emails I receive from ACCA is beginning to become unbearable. Go straight to delete button.

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By Bungo
20th Mar 2015 07:23

Relieved
I feel sort of relieved when I read comments like this on ACCA, as after twenty two years I am readying to give it up in order to start up by myself with no PC. Perhaps I really won't miss it after all.

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By Eve E
20th Mar 2015 07:30

Same here....
Having been an ACCA member since 2001 I am seriously considering not renewing next year, and going down the ICPA route instead, as their member benefits seem a lot more relevant. I know I will lose my right to be termed a 'chartered' accountant, but at the end of the day, I know that I've passed the exams and qualified and that will be enough for me. I doubt any future clients would really know the difference anyway!

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By NHGlos
20th Mar 2015 08:19

CIMA

As a CIMA member, I can sympathise with all of the above.

Whilst CIMA quite pragmatic i some day-to-day issues, they seem to lack any recognition of the fact that SMEs are the back bone of domestic business. The journal usually goes unread by me as it's focus is on aspects that may be high on the agenda if you're a multi-national PLC, but not if you're a small private Ltd. company. Then there is the standard propaganda article of a CIMA member who has risen through the ranks to become CFO of an international oil company!

The only reason for paying my subs is to have the qualification I worked for, I've considered taking top-up courses to gain an MSc to have something for my efforts without having to pay subs.

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By mrme89
20th Mar 2015 08:23

AAT
The AAT gave me a tea bag last year. It was a good one too. Very good value for membership.

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By User deleted
20th Mar 2015 08:41

ACCA

I gave up on the ACCA years ago and haven't regretted it once. Clients don't know and don't care what the difference is between ACCA and ICPA, and if they did ask I'd explain that ACCA didn't give value for money and ICPA sis. As many pay subs of varying kinds themselves they'd understand. And I've still got my certificates proving that I qualified (despite the ACCA saying they wanted them back) so there wouldn't be any doubt on that score.

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Replying to jack-smith620:
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By NHGlos
20th Mar 2015 08:48

Eye of the beholder

Flash Gordon wrote:

Clients don't know and don't care what the difference is between ACCA and ICPA...

Being CIMA in industry I wonder how I'd be viewed in the employment market, my self-employed/business interests are accounting related but not the provision of accounting services and qualification within this area is pretty much assumed. When I was a tutor for one of the major tuition providers, a freelance colleague actually let there ICAEW membership lapse as they basically didn't need it.

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Replying to jack-smith620:
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By Eve E
20th Mar 2015 09:00

Really??!!!
Flash, I can't believe they asked for your certificates back!! How can they do that? You passed the papers so they can't rescind your having qualified! Says it all really!

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By Yesican
20th Mar 2015 10:06

ACCA certificate
Yes they do request for it. I was in shock as well when I was asked to send mine back. It actually felt like breaking up with a long term boyfriend. I am loving ICPA as it is relevant to accountants in UK practice

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RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Mar 2015 10:09

Out of Touch

Clearly all the accountancy bodies are out of touch.   They keep publishing standards for proper accounting with stocks and creditors and things whilst HMRC are clearly seeing cash accounting as the future.

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 11:13

Professional??

What a bunch of pathetic whingers on this site. Do you not take any pride in your professional qualification. You really are the dregs of your profession and the professional bodies will be well rid of you all.

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
By mrme89
20th Mar 2015 11:18

Clearly

howlin wolf wrote:

What a bunch of pathetic whingers on this site. Do you not take any pride in your professional qualification. You really are the dregs of your profession and the professional bodies will be well rid of you all.

 

Qualification does not equal professionalism.

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By User deleted
20th Mar 2015 11:27

Bless...

howlin wolf wrote:

What a bunch of pathetic whingers on this site. Do you not take any pride in your professional qualification. You really are the dregs of your profession and the professional bodies will be well rid of you all.

I'll think you'll find that there's a big difference between pride in your professional qualification and pride in the accountancy body who awarded it. I am proud of having achieved the qualification. The ACCA however were more bothered about gaining new members in far-flung countries than they were about looking after small members in the UK so it was difficult to have any pride in them. Hence I kept the certificates and binned the membership.

 

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
By Bungo
20th Mar 2015 12:51

You are wrong

howlin wolf wrote:

What a bunch of pathetic whingers on this site. Do you not take any pride in your professional qualification. You really are the dregs of your profession and the professional bodies will be well rid of you all.

Many people on here have had to leave because their professional body will not support them. I have qualified as ACCA and maintained CPD for twenty years. Yet now I want a change in career direction, my qualification and CPD is suddenly not good enough and I will not be able to get a practising certificate. I am happy to pay and jump through hoops to get it, but it is not being made hard for me (hard, I could accept) but it is made impossible. Do you get that? It leaves me and people like me in the weird situation, whereby the only way we can work as an accountant is to resign our membership of the accountancy body. So far nobody I have explained this to that thinks this is quite logical. And no I am not the dregs of my profession and no the professional body will not be well rid of me.

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 11:20

Just as bad

You lot are just as bad as the "experienced but still unqualified " brigade.

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 11:32

Contradiction

That's a bit of a contradiction. How can you be proud of something you achieved from an institution you have no regard for and treat with contempt and ridicule. Surely you must consider the qualification as a reflection of the institute who awarded it.

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Replying to ms998:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Mar 2015 11:39

Poor

howlin wolf wrote:

That's a bit of a contradiction. How can you be proud of something you achieved from an institution you have no regard for and treat with contempt and ridicule. Surely you must consider the qualification as a reflection of the institute who awarded it.

Things change.

The professional bodies used to be interested in the entire membership. Now they have little or no interest in "coal face" accountancy.

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Replying to ms998:
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By NHGlos
20th Mar 2015 11:50

It works both ways

howlin wolf wrote:

That's a bit of a contradiction. How can you be proud of something you achieved from an institution you have no regard for and treat with contempt and ridicule. Surely you must consider the qualification as a reflection of the institute who awarded it.

It works both ways. The qualification and regard for it isn't the issue, it's the lack of regard the bodies have for people who have worked and paid for their qualification and continue to pay fees.

What should we do, blindly pay our fees and just tow the party line?

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 12:15

Why cant

Why can't you change it. Surely your professional body should be governed by its members and if its members feel strongly about something they can change by a democratic process. I would have assumed that if the majority felt that it was out of touch, the majority would do something about it.

Maybe it's just apathy amongst the members

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By mrme89
20th Mar 2015 12:22

Members include employees and those working in industry etc too.

It is generally self-employed members in practice who don't see any value in the membership. And guess what, the majority (if any) of their clients don't care about their membership either.

What is the point in being a member of a body that no longer represents you?

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By ChrisScullard
20th Mar 2015 13:02

To some extent I do often wonder why I pay ICAEW nearly £700 a year.  Then again I have used the advice lines from time to time and, unlike some others, I do value being able to call myself and firm Chartered Accountants.  I use this as a marketing tool if nothing else.

One thing that does concern me (a little) is whether the term 'Accountant' ever becomes protected.  Clearly it isn't now but who knows what beaurocrats will do in future. 

All it would take to destroy my livelihood is for some smart alec to decide, for example, that you can only be an HMRC authorised agent if you hold a membership to (insert insitutes). 

Likely?  No.

Catastrophic of it happens? Yes.

One thing that does annoy me (a lot) is some of the compliance we have to go through.  For example I started looking at forming a JV with an IFA to offer mortgage and business protection advice to our clients.  The amount of compliance involved makes this pretty much unworkable.  Therefore a potentially lucrative revenue stream isn't available to me.

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 13:10

Bungo you are wrong. The rules are there to uphold the standards and reputation of the professional body. Just because you passed their exams 20 years ago and have paid their subs does not entitle you to a practising certificate to be let loose on the general public if you spent the last 20 years in say a public sector job. You would not be able to offer the same standard of advice the general public would expect from a member of the professional body.

Their rules are not dreamt up overnight they are put in place to safeguard their members.

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Replying to dgilmour51:
By Bungo
20th Mar 2015 13:36

Correction

howlin wolf wrote:

Bungo you are wrong. The rules are there to uphold the standards and reputation of the professional body. Just because you passed their exams 20 years ago and have paid their subs does not entitle you to a practising certificate to be let loose on the general public if you spent the last 20 years in say a public sector job. You would not be able to offer the same standard of advice the general public would expect from a member of the professional body.

Their rules are not dreamt up overnight they are put in place to safeguard their members.

No not because I passed their exams twenty years ago, because I passed the exams twenty years ago (the same exams somebody in practice passed by the way) and have maintained my CPD. And because I abide by professional standards and do / would not act in areas where I do not feel competent to do so. If the ACCA think that their qualification and standards are of value, they should not be scared to let their members use them.

Maybe you are a one trick pony and cannot move between different fields, but many of us are more versatile and can commit to filing in the knowledge gaps that we will undoubtedly encounter.

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By Eve E
20th Mar 2015 13:19

Chartered
Chris, please don't get me wrong, I very much value being able to call myself a chartered accountant, I have always been very proud to do so in fact, but just not at the cost of my future livelihood, and this is the point that I feel I am currently at. I don't feel I have much choice as obtaining a PC from the ACCA is nigh on impossible for me.

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By Bisazza_Malta
20th Mar 2015 13:25

Personal experience with ACCA is that it is a pain for students as well. All this faff about 8 exams/year and only 4/session. Surely more reasonable to allow students to pass as they feel ready, and if that is 6 in the first go, why not? Lets them take fewer exams per session later on when they get hard if they want to keep to the same completion date and presumably reduce the number of resits.

I know smart graduates taking a year out to study ACCA full-time and could easily have passed eleven or twelve in their first year due to the time they can dedicate to learning.

Now most exams are multiple choice the burden on markers can't be the reason.

One would assume the body would want to make the process to become qualified as administratively easy as possible without compromising the standard of education.

Obviously exams aren't the only thing required to become qualified, however the whole process should be as fluid as possible.

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 17:30

CA

Eve can you call yourself a chartered accountant with only a ACCA, I thought only members of ICEW and ICAS can call themselves chartered accountants. Maybe anyone now can call them chartered accountants or registered accountants or never passed an exam qualified but have a huge opinion of themselves but with big chips on their shoulders accountants. Apply to the John Wayne school of Accounting Degrees.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
RLI
By lionofludesch
21st Mar 2015 10:28

Ignorance

howlin wolf wrote:

Eve can you call yourself a chartered accountant with only a ACCA, I thought only members of ICEW and ICAS can call themselves chartered accountants. Maybe anyone now can call them chartered accountants or registered accountants or never passed an exam qualified but have a huge opinion of themselves but with big chips on their shoulders accountants. Apply to the John Wayne school of Accounting Degrees.

Sometimes it's wise to refrain from publicly displaying your ignorance.

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By Eve E
20th Mar 2015 18:28

Howlin Wolf....
.....don't give up the day job

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By howlin wolf
20th Mar 2015 18:43

Thank you Eve I appreciate your advice and I will revert back you should I need your valued advice. Please send your proof of being a ca  not just as acca

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By User deleted
20th Mar 2015 20:34

Howlin Wolf

You are confused. Yes the initials CA are only available to members of certain bodies (ICAEW not being one of them). But members of bodies other than ICAS and ICAEW are entitled to describe themsleves as chartered. Hint - look up what "ACCA" means.

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By Greenheys
21st Mar 2015 20:01

Out of touch.

Yes, I think they are out of touch - once upon a time those just qualified could prepare a set of accounts - and tested for in examination.

 

Apparently that's old fashioned.

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