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As others see us

Perception is everything or nothing

Didn't find your answer?

Overhead in pub @ lunch time today from barmaid looking in my direction

"All accountants are rich - they get their money by charging people a lot for doing not very much"

How others see us used to matter does it still ? 

 

Replies (53)

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By lesley.barnes
26th Feb 2020 14:38

I wish on all counts!

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By Accountant A
26th Feb 2020 14:44

Why do you think people come on here asking for free advice? Same disdainful attitude for accountants skill and knowledge.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Feb 2020 14:47

Point out that there's no need to engage an accountant.

Everything's so simple these days. You can do it yourself.

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By JoF
26th Feb 2020 15:05

This used to be a respected profession, but I dont think it is any more, except by a minority.

I always get comments like that when they see my car, almost to the point of parking it out of view, but now Im almost passed caring. I work hard for my money and dont squander it (over the years Ive found that most folk who make such comments squander money/never save for a rainy day - at both ends of the social scale!)

Thanks (2)
Replying to JoF:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
26th Feb 2020 15:05

My father as a solicitor ran two cars to visit clients, a smaller one when he thought the client would think he was driving the fees he had charged said client and a larger one for those clients he more needed to impress re his, and by reflection his firm's, perceived success.

I also am fairly tight, rarely buying new cars, rationing takeaways and instead cooking , doing as much DIY work as possible (because I enjoy it but it also saves money) and viewing every pound saved as getting me a minute closer to being able to afford to retire; catch is my offspring are less inclined to save and I am a soft touch.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By JoF
26th Feb 2020 15:14

I love my cars (I shouldve been a boy racer!)

When I got my 1st job at 16, Dad made me pay 1/3rd to Mum for my keep; 1/3 to a savings account and other 1/3, in his words, I could do what the hell I wanted with it. Every single time I got a pay rise he found out about it (pal of his in the same business!), I had to increase the amounts to maintain that 1/3rd and he checked my savings statement. His house, his rules, if I didnt like them I could move out.

I hated it initially, but at 17 bought my 1st car for cash and thanked him!!

Never had a single penny of debt, apart from a mortgage. If I cannot afford it, I dont buy it until I have saved for it. I dont think you are being tight by rationing takeaways, its just sensible!

Taught my son the same rule. He hated me for it initially....but guess what.....history repeated itself and he had a foot on the housing ladder years before his pals, plus car and other 'stuff' with no debt.

Ive occasionally been tempted by getting a smaller old banger run around, one that could double up to get me out of hole when it snows!!

Thanks (1)
Replying to JoF:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
26th Feb 2020 15:24

Old cars are the way to drive cheaply (if you do not drive much) my current one in my terms is fairly young- nine years old in April and my wife's is now ten (albeit only 40k and 35k on clocks respectively) but over years my cars have often drifted up to the 12-15 year mark and back when I was thinner and slightly more agile a fair bit of the repairs/servicing was me lying on my back in the street fixing them (water pumps , replacing radiators etc)

A friend of mine , long dead now, who sold cars for a living ,pointed out that most people think they spend more on their houses than anything else, they are wrong, my house net of current value has probably cost me nothing, his point was cars, especially if one is a new car buyer every 2-3 years, are likely nearly the most expensive single thing anyone buys in their life.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By bernard michael
26th Feb 2020 15:30

DJKL wrote:

Old cars are the way to drive cheaply (if you do not drive much) my current one in my terms is fairly young- nine years old in April and my wife's is now ten (albeit only 40k and 35k on clocks respectively) but over years my cars have often drifted up to the 12-15 year mark and back when I was thinner and slightly more agile a fair bit of the repairs/servicing was me lying on my back in the street fixing them (water pumps , replacing radiators etc)

A friend of mine , long dead now, who sold cars for a living ,pointed out that most people think they spend more on their houses than anything else, they are wrong, my house net of current value has probably cost me nothing, his point was cars, especially if one is a new car buyer every 2-3 years, are likely nearly the most expensive single thing anyone buys in their life.


I went through a crazy phase when I was younger of buying a new car when the plate number changed keeping it for a year and replacing it with another new one of the same model. The overall cost per annum seemed reasonable at he time but probably wasn't. It all went wrong when I wrote one off
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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Feb 2020 16:23

DJKL wrote:
.... a fair bit of the repairs/servicing was me lying on my back in the street fixing them (water pumps , replacing radiators etc)

Ooooh - criminal offence there.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By JoF
26th Feb 2020 17:09

A great skill to have. Harder one to possess with todays seal them in a box without a key type engines.

I couldnt even work out how to top up the coolant in mine a couple of weeks back! I know now though!!

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
26th Feb 2020 17:20

I did not know that but I think you have to be doing it all the time/as part of a business etc-otherwise I better turn myself in

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q621.htm

At least these days I have access to a warmish workshop as my last decent sized job (last year) was removing and cutting the hind quarters from my Countryman and fitting a tow bar and this took the best part of a day ; even the parking sensors still worked afterwards,

I did spend 15 minutes outside on Monday doing headlight bulbs in the pitch dark on the Fiat- about 13 minutes working out what tab to press and 2 minutes changing the bulbs.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Feb 2020 17:28

DJKL wrote:

I did not know that but I think you have to be doing it all the time/as part of a business etc-otherwise I better turn myself in

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q621.htm

From that, it seems to depend on how often you do it.

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Replying to JoF:
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By bernard michael
26th Feb 2020 15:26

JoF wrote:

I love my cars (I shouldve been a boy racer!)

When I got my 1st job at 16, Dad made me pay 1/3rd to Mum for my keep; 1/3 to a savings account and other 1/3, in his words, I could do what the hell I wanted with it. Every single time I got a pay rise he found out about it (pal of his in the same business!), I had to increase the amounts to maintain that 1/3rd and he checked my savings statement. His house, his rules, if I didnt like them I could move out.

I hated it initially, but at 17 bought my 1st car for cash and thanked him!!

Never had a single penny of debt, apart from a mortgage. If I cannot afford it, I dont buy it until I have saved for it. I dont think you are being tight by rationing takeaways, its just sensible!

Taught my son the same rule. He hated me for it initially....but guess what.....history repeated itself and he had a foot on the housing ladder years before his pals, plus car and other 'stuff' with no debt.

Ive occasionally been tempted by getting a smaller old banger run around, one that could double up to get me out of hole when it snows!!

I hope you've written a will trust to prevent your family enjoying the benefits of your ultimate departure from this mortal coil

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By JoF
26th Feb 2020 17:07

Timely reminder that I need to update it, now my son is passed 21. Thank you!

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Feb 2020 15:16

DJKL wrote:

I also am fairly tight, rarely buying new cars, rationing takeaways and instead cooking , doing as much DIY work as possible (because I enjoy it but it also saves money)....

I, on the other hand, do as little DIY work as possible, as, in the long run, it saves money when we inevitably get a man in.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
26th Feb 2020 15:28

It is the only exercise I get and for this gardening season even that is looking doubtful as I did a fair bit of slab laying/wall building end of last summer and have suffered from tennis elbow ever since- I think lifting bricks one handed over and over did most of the the damage, that or lifting pints.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
26th Feb 2020 17:51

lionofludesch wrote:

DJKL wrote:

I also am fairly tight, rarely buying new cars, rationing takeaways and instead cooking , doing as much DIY work as possible (because I enjoy it but it also saves money)....

I, on the other hand, do as little DIY work as possible, as, in the long run, it saves money when we inevitably get a man in.

It took a fair few years and many things affixed a few inches to the left of where they should be to cover redundant holes, before Mrs ALISK managed to convince me that if handymen shouldn’t do their own taxes, I shouldn’t do DIY. We now have ‘a guy’ who may or may not turn up when he says he will. I try to pretend my manhood isn’t hurt whenever Mrs ALISK tells me not to do a minute thing but to call our guy in. In the up side, it does get Mrs ALISK off my back for never actually getting round to hanging [***].

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Open all hours
26th Feb 2020 17:26

Used to drive a top model Golf. Useful to be able to say it was a Golf when asked what I drove. Those in the know could tell by the exhaust pipes and the ‘growl’ that it wasn’t a 1.6 diesel. Never wrong to drive a Golf.

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Replying to Open all hours:
Slim
By Slim
27th Feb 2020 19:36

My builder turned up today in a brand new X5 and had a Tag on is wrist, part of me thought I'm in the wrong job. I'd never be so flashy when turning up to a clients.

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Replying to Slim:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2020 22:36

Slim wrote:

My builder turned up today in a brand new X5 and had a Tag on is wrist, part of me thought I'm in the wrong job. I'd never be so flashy when turning up to a clients.


Tags are usually on the ankle, aren't they?
Thanks (3)
Replying to Open all hours:
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By mrshamilton
28th Feb 2020 12:04

I drive that golf now!! Love it

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Replying to mrshamilton:
By 0098087
28th Feb 2020 12:39

Was a very very nice car..

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Replying to DJKL:
By 0098087
28th Feb 2020 10:23

At 53 years old I have a nice BMW. Cost 26k. Is that expensive..I don't think so but it's the first 'decent' car i've bought.

I'm not denegrating my Golf Plus or Freelander..but you know what I mean. Wife says I deserve a nice car after all these years.

And yes..they do wonder what they pay for but they aren't backwards in coming forwards when they want advice...

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Replying to JoF:
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By Mr_awol
27th Feb 2020 11:59

JoF wrote:

This used to be a respected profession, but I dont think it is any more, except by a minority.

I always think about this when someone defends their monthly pricing with "well that's how people pay for their mobile phone" or some other such idiocy.

If they/we are then treated with the same level of respect as the bloke in the local O2 shop - who is to blame? If we want to compare our services - even in this small way - to other general business overheads, why should the clients see us as any different?

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Replying to Mr_awol:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
27th Feb 2020 12:18

Agreed- bring back rendering fees in guineas.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2020 12:29

I always thought it lost its impact when you got past 19 gns.

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
28th Feb 2020 17:52

I had actually never thought of that.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Feb 2020 18:08

Oh aye. Even in proper money 32 guineas is £33-12-0.

Doesn't look as good as £19-19-0.

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By johnt27
26th Feb 2020 16:15

Without wishing to pull the proverbial pin here I do wonder if both the deregulation of the accountancy profession and the multitude of professional bodies in the UK is in part responsible for such attitudes.

I actually think the latter is more damaging than the former as the accountancy profession rarely speaks as one voice and all the news tends to be bad (usually regarding audit!)

Thanks (3)
Replying to johnt27:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
26th Feb 2020 17:02

You could be right though more fool those in the pubs.

Some of the accounts produced when there was a more heavily regulated sector (every company with an audit etc) whilst maybe looking better re presentation, were frankly just as **** as some of those produced currently, the only difference is now accountants more readily sing, "we're **** and we know it" whereas in days of yore a pretence of competence was preserved. (The practitioners who had qualified in the 1960s/early 1970s and in the 1980s/1990s had barely opened a textbook or updated their skills since)

I think they have gone like teachers in the eyes of the public, but I think the same may apply to all professionals, these days maybe we "have had enough of experts".

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Replying to DJKL:
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By johnt27
26th Feb 2020 17:36

I'm not sure if it's exclusively a UK thing, but I do have the benefit of being able to work overseas and with other accountants overseas and they seem (generally from not particularly scientific survey) to be held in higher regard.

I was pleasantly surprised when I mentioned to someone in Australia that I was an accountant and the first question back was: Chartered or Public. I've had similar experiences in the US and Canada. All 3 of these countries have less deregulation and only 2 or 3 professional accountancy bodies.

Going back to the question from the Aussie it actually makes the 4 years of study seem worthwhile and made me feel quite proud at the time as well as being taken aback. Whereas here in the UK we seem to devalue our chartered status and fail to articulate well what it actually means...

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David Winch
By David Winch
27th Feb 2020 01:36

I don't think this is exclusive to the accountancy profession. I work with a lot of solicitors and barristers and they are subject to the same suspicion that they are lazy & rolling in money!
David

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Replying to davidwinch:
My photo
By Matrix
26th Feb 2020 19:47

But they are.

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Replying to davidwinch:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Feb 2020 20:01

Yes, that one's true, David.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
David Winch
By David Winch
26th Feb 2020 20:09

Admittedly these figures are from 2013, but earnings in legal aid are still very poor -
"Carter now co-chairs Young Legal Aid Lawyers, a group representing more than 2,000 trainee and junior lawyers, students and paralegals in England and Wales. In 2013, a survey of their members found that 50% earn less than £20,000 a year, with 5% earning less than £10,000."

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Duggimon
27th Feb 2020 12:21

We have several clients who are lawyers with a significant chunk of their income coming from legal aid and they earn pretty paltry sums compared with our own modest fees.

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blue sheep
By NH
27th Feb 2020 06:18

I think this question says more about the correlation between the number of pints consumed during your lunch and your increased feeling of paranoia - "she means YOU Bernard"

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By bernard michael
27th Feb 2020 10:04

I'm always abstemious so that I can earwig Man in the Pub's advice

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Replying to bernard michael:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
27th Feb 2020 12:19

Do you log it as CPD?

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By Duggimon
27th Feb 2020 12:22

To be fair Bernard, the amount of conversations you overhear in that pub I'd be surprised to hear you spend more than a couple of hours in the office each day.

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Replying to Duggimon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2020 12:35

Duggimon wrote:

To be fair Bernard, the amount of conversations you overhear in that pub I'd be surprised to hear you spend more than a couple of hours in the office each day.

Yeah - fair comment, Bernard.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By bernard michael
27th Feb 2020 14:06

Duggimon wrote:

To be fair Bernard, the amount of conversations you overhear in that pub I'd be surprised to hear you spend more than a couple of hours in the office each day.

In my defence I must clarify that during the week 'tis but 1 hour for lunch and 1 on the way home. The timing is opportune to coincide with people with whom I have meaningful discussions about rugby, beer and local matters. Also present are 2 /3 men DTP who offer opinions to all and sundry

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By C Graham
28th Feb 2020 10:40

who goes to the pub anymore?

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Replying to C Graham:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Feb 2020 10:53

C Graham wrote:

who goes to the pub anymore?

Bernard.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By C Graham
28th Feb 2020 11:05

and what's he drinking? a double entry whisky or is he teeTOTAL?

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By [email protected]
28th Feb 2020 10:17

Its not that most accountants are overpaid, its that most barmaids are wage exploited and very much underpaid.

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Replying to [email protected]:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Feb 2020 10:22

andrewdinkenor-AT-compuserve.com wrote:

Its not that most accountants are overpaid, its that most barmaids are wage exploited and very much underpaid.

Which explains all the unprofitable pubs in the country.

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By why always me
28th Feb 2020 10:47

I would have posted earlier, but have been counting my money all morning!!

We have several clients comment on the owners new car / office / house and it used to bother me, but now I just say surely better to have a successful accountant than not and yes we cannot hide money and just smile.

Doesn't matter what job you have, there are always people who put you down when doing well. British disease sadly.

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Flag of the Soviet Union
By thevaliant
28th Feb 2020 11:00

Well, there is too much regulation in this country. Working in audit (and this is where I comment) if it were down to me I'd take private limited companies (of any size) out of audit, and if they did want a voluntary audit I would raise the shareholder threshold to 25% requirement AND require a notice to be lodged at Companies House each year by the shareholders to confirm this.

So, I'd agree that audits don't do very much (of limited or even no benefit) and might agree with the barmaids comments on that one.

Doing myself out of a job here.

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By Stalytax
28th Feb 2020 17:19

The 'bloke down the pub' has been the bane of my life for years, filling my clients' heads with confused nonsense about what they should be claiming for, how much tax they should really pay, or how much CIS refund they should really be getting. Oh, and National Insurance contributions are strictly voluntary, don'tcha know?

I do what DJKL's dad did, my slightly tatty 17 year old diesel Merc sits on the drive, that's the one the new client sees, only the clients I have had for years and the occasional car nut ever get to see the classic air-cooled 911 that is squirreled away out of sight. An accountant ex-boss of mine had a Roller, it impressed the showbiz type clients he was after, and annoyed the hell out of everyone else who (quite rightly) felt that their fees were helping to pay for it's upkeep!

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