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AVN and Probiz

AVN and Probiz

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I have recently come across AVN and Probiz. From my understanding for a fee they help your practice get to the next level ie more profitable work- none compliance work. In the main from my understanding they provide a support function.

I am not sure how much they charge. I looked at their websites -no indication of their fees. AVN gives a list of people to contact, they are bound to say very good, otherwise they would not be on AVN list.

I would be grateful for any feedback. Are they any others like these two, which can be rated as good in terms of support and other revenue streams.

It would be helpful to have  clear information what is that they do to help to increase revenues.



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By Anonymous
27th Nov 2009 07:26

They work in different ways

I have not joined either of them but


AVN provide you with templates for charging fixed monthly fees and templates for add on work over and above compliance but you still have to find the clients.


Probiz seem to be more of a referral organization .



2020 may be worth looking into as they provide both marketing and technical material and lectures and cost far less than the other 2.



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27th Nov 2009 08:29


We were AVN compliance members for a short time last year, it didn't work out for us but that, in my opinion, was six of one half a dozen of the other.

I would recommend attending one of Steve Pipes one day conferences this is likely to be free or a minimal cost.  Whatever your view of AVN at the end of the day you will find that the day makes you step back and look at your practice in a way that most have never done.  I attended about 18 months ago and regularly find that I am employing some of the ideas discussed to the benefit of this practice and our clients.

I have not been involved with Probiz but I am sure others will be able to comment upon them.

Take a day out of the office, listen to Steve Pipe and I believe you will find it to be one of the best and most enjoyable conferences that you have attended.


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27th Nov 2009 10:34

Sounds like you're after the philospoher's stone

None of these organisations will of themeselves increase your revenues. They will simply provide tools and advice to help YOU to do that - if you buy into their philosophies and approach. Some do, some don't.

Probiz has chnaged its approach in the last year and seems to now be more focused on encouraging accountants to identify clients who want to invest large sums in their schemes and investment opportunities. The accountant then earns a commission for doing so. Qualified accoiuntants of course need to ensure that the lure of commission doesn't damage their commitment to the five ethical principles - which effectively restrict your ability to be seen to be recommending someone because of the promise of commission.

AVN - as has been noted - will open your eyes to new ways of operating which some accountants find attractive. As I've said in an article on AccountingWeb this week, if I were still in practice, it's an approach I think I would find attractive. And Steve Pipe is a very compelling speaker.

2020 also provide tools, tips and advice - but in a more flexible way I think. They leave you with more discretion as to how you apply their ideas which are, perhaps, less structured than AVN.

The other option is to work with an experienced accountancy business coach (a service which I have offered in the past - but less so these days). There are a number who publish articles on the in Practice area of AccountingWeb and who would, I am sure, be able to offer you advice and help that will enable YOU to increase your revenues (and, more importantly, your PROFITS).


ps: You may also find some useful tips and advice on my blog for ambitious accountants.

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28th Nov 2009 04:08

Avn and probiz

Have a chat with Paul Shrimpling - ex Md of AVN - he seems very good.  I thought Marks response was excellent and would add I have met a lot of ex members of both organisations who found that they could not pursue the approach put forward (for whatever reason) and therefore wasted their money. 

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By Lahtac
02nd Dec 2009 23:35

AVN and Probiz

Firstly let me say I have a set of smashing golf clubs, however my golf is terrible. The same can be said about my tennis game. Basically I dont practice and play enough (I have a very expensive tennis racket) .    

We are member firm of 2020 group and that in itself has not imporved our fee income or the quality of our clients. However 2020 group has given us a methodology and tools to provide "added value" and business advancement services to our clients. The initial problem was like my golf game is that I got the manuals and tool kits but didn't work on it. I was "too busy" at compliance work. Well this year we identified that same old same old wouldn't work for us or our clients so we made time to practice the use of the tools and methodologies. Initailly as with my golf game the results were patchy but over time we have made noticeable advances in both client satisfaction and fee growth.    

it was actually Gordon Gilchrist of 2020 who provided the analogy of the golf game. 2020 will gladely take your subscription fee but only you can improve your game (with a lilttle coaching and plenty of practice).       

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