I had a client who was rather unpleasant we parted a long time back but she still owed me money and had been paying from time to time. She never said we will not pay.
She has not paid for a while so appointed a debt collector. I think this really irked her. She then got quite insulting saying her new accountant pointed out a number of errors in my work and they were questioning my ability as an accountant There has been quite a few emails on these lines.
The issue was that at the time due to the client being so badly disorganised she was unable to answer basic questions we made some judgement calls plus there was extremely tight deadline to meet. I have everything documented and signed by the client. Yes in hindsight would have done it differently but you live and learn
I have enough ammunition to hit back but I have not said anything as have left the matter in the hands of the debt collector. There is so much I can take before I react. Do I give her the full salvo as I know it will hit her hard. I also want to counter her allegations.
How do you deal with difficult clients and the stress that goes with it ? I have only had a couple who were difficult but I didn't handle the stress very well.
Replies (48)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
Think you either have to let it go or use a solicitor. Anything else and you will just end up in an unprofitable slanging match.
I would not enter into any correspondence with her, if you do speak to your professional body first.
The most I would go is a blanket rebuttal along he lines of "we prepared the accounts to the best of our knowledge based on the incomplete data you supplied. If new information casts doubt on the accuracy of your statement on the XZY when you confirmed by your signature that the figures were correct, then please address your concerns to your current accountants"
Or "do one" as its known in less polite circles.
The most I would go is a blanket rebuttal along he lines of "we prepared the accounts to the best of our knowledge based on the incomplete data you supplied. If new information casts doubt on the accuracy of your statement on the XZY when you confirmed by your signature that the figures were correct, then please address your concerns to your current accountants"
Or "do one" as its known in less polite circles.
I would do this, refuse to communicate further and go to small claims / MCOL. She’ll either have to stump up her ‘evidence’ for the defence, or pay up (you might have to pass to bailiffs for this to happen). From my experience, when the court claim comes through clients tend to just pay.
Whatever you do, I do not recommend:
- Having it out with your client on a public forum over the course of 2 days - logging in multiple times per day to check for, and respond to, comments.
- Steadfastly refuse to accept any criticism and deny that there were any issues at all. Just keep repeating the same rubbish explanation again and again and claim that no one has read it or understood it.
- Pretend to take personal offence, having "learned" from the media that doing so might constitute a valid and effective defence strategy - or that it might at least guilt trip people into taking your side and/or ceasing their professional criticism.
Doing the above might cause people to lose any respect they had for you and your work, moreso than any issues that may or may not have been present in the work.
Mind, I have been told recently that my career advice is terrible - so perhaps do the opposite and see if it works out better for you than it did for the last guy.
@Cats, believe me you really have not. Only the horrible side of Accounting Web lashing into a well respected tax author for writing an article which could be interpreted in more than one way.
Lashing? Nah.
Some comments were out of order (including, nay especially, the aforementioned 'career advice'), but most of it was simple honest feedback. Wilson in particular made an effort to engage constructively, whilst suggesting shortcomings. It's just unfortunate that the tone was set* by an inappropriate heading against which the author - completely understandably - riled. Thereafter, mutually constructive engagement was always going to be difficult (absent called-for apologies), despite Wilson's best endeavours, and any movement towards constructive engagement would always be easy to derail by giving, say, uncalled-for 'career advice'. That's catastrophe theory in action.
Anyway, let's let it rest.
* 'The tone was set' - an old phrase showing that people knew about catastrophe theory long before it was mathematically formulated.
She has not paid for a while so appointed a debt collector.
What do you mean by this, as a matter of interest?
My understanding (based on watching trash TV) is that the legal process for debt recovery is to make a court claim and then, when judgement is given in your favour, seek to enforce judgement if required.
Up here a debt collector can be involved prior to court, in fact one of the most effective deterrents to them is to ask them to get their client to take the matter to court, Electric/gas/water bills that are incorrect in our case, they tend to back away once you state you have queried the bill with their client and send them a copy of what you sent. I am lucky if a week does not go by without some such spurious bill chasing.
Re the OP let the collectors get on with it or not, if it totally sticks small claims likely the way to go, but for now let them do what they do.
What I would not do is discuss the work quality with the ex client, if she wishes to dispute what was delivered let her do so in her defences re your claim if it does ever reach court.
Up here a debt collector can be involved prior to court,
Pretty sure that in England, there’s no such thing. Well, not legal anyway. I guess you could always find someone to go round and politely suggest that the client might like to pay up for the good of their health. Not the most professional approach, obviously.
Pretty sure that there are loads of them in England.
Do a Google search...
@Jim Little
Do you not wish you'd just let this go now?
I used to take people to the small claims court.
Once you add up the time spent and the stress (which you mention) I've come to the conclusion that its better to let the odd rascal get away with it.
Keep most of the clients on a short leash obv.
The Krays reputedly opened their 'negotiation' with ... "Are you attached to your knees? And would you like that to remain the case after we've finished this talk?"
Pretty sure that in England, there’s no such thing. Well, not legal anyway.
There’s about a million* ‘Debt Management’ companies, HMRC use them. Are you getting confused with Bailiffs?
I’m being harassed by a French DMC on behalf of a global French run company with an advertising website for UK accountants. I used them for a 12 month spot, then cancelled the DD. First they said it was automatic renewal (nowhere in my invoice or correspondence did it contradict 12 months, no T&Cs provided), then they said that I chose to renew and signed a renewal form (which I didn’t). 4 months and 6 requests to see this ‘evidence’ haven’t elicited anything … they have literally made this debt up. Debt company are starting to realise there’s no case and have quietened down.
* editorial licence used
One group of enterprising Uni students used to offer "debt collection". Get into dirty fishing gear. Get sloshed then go to the defaulter and ask for the payment and just hang around their premises.
They had some success.
Pretty sure that in England, there’s no such thing.
I'm pretty sure that there are.
Are you confusing these folk with bailiffs ? I don't need to be a bailiff to go and ask somebody for money they owe. Nor does it prevent me from taking further steps on my principal's behalf if the debtor doesn't pay up.
DJKL wrote:
Up here a debt collector can be involved prior to court,
Pretty sure that in England, there’s no such thing. Well, not legal anyway. I guess you could always find someone to go round and politely suggest that the client might like to pay up for the good of their health. Not the most professional approach, obviously.
You might be confusing debt collector with bailiff. A debt collector merely chases the debt, it has no powers to recover the debt if the client refuses to pay.
Once court action has been finalised, and you have a judgement, and the debt still isn't paid, you can appoint a court bailiff to recover the debt. This can include possession of property after obtaining the necessary court order.
In my opinion (granted based on an incident nearly 20 years ago) they are pretty toothless.
If the debt is over £600 you can apply to the High Court and appoint a high court enforcement officer (bailiff) who will recover the debt on your behalf. These guys don't muck about, if they can retrieve the debt they will. The guys on Can't pay won't pay are HCEO's
They also help with the letters before action.
Those are a piece of cake. You don’t need to say much. The detail comes if you need to go to the court claim stage. Even then, it’s factual stuff: Your engagement, services rendered, invoices issued, invoices not paid.
For every one of these, how many clients do you have who think just the opposite about you, are more than happy with your work and always pay on time or even early?
Concentrate on doing right by them and leave the stress of this lowlife to the small claims court. Can you prove that the new accountant really thinks badly of you? Her unsupported words now count for nowt in these circumstances. Crack on, tomorrow is going to be a great day.
its a disgruntled ex client having a go at you. Probably the other accountant said nothing.
Well done on catching the boomerang. Your ex client will hear what she wants to hear and interpret it to her own satisfaction speech does not always translate accurately to the page. There’s no tone for a start. Fret not.
If you think that she might actually issue a claim about your work (however strong your position), you might need to consider informing your PI insurers.
£3000 over her two entities.
Are they both not incorporated ??> If not don't waste any more time make a Money Claim on Line, which is easy to do and then wait for the ridiculous defence offered. Have no mercy or sympathy from now on with this time-waster.
She'll understand that a County Court judgement will smash her credit rating and should effect the scams/shady deals she's probably running. That may bring her to heel
One is incorporated and one not.
It will only affect her credit rating if she doesn't pay following the court order
Now life gets more complicated. You actually have 2 clients and would have to sue them individually. Do either of them have the funds to pay you ?? What is the breakdown of the £3000 outstanding between the Ltd Company and the individual
£3000 over her two entities.
Jim, that sounds like a process issue your side that you could get a debt of such a size outstanding.
I wouldn't have filed full stop if i hadn't been paid. Its your main weapon in debt collection, don't throw it away by filing before hand.
It depends how much they owe me. Over £400 I let the online court deal with it. Below that I maintain a discreet silence but never forget. What goes round generally comes round and I've often been in a position in later years to exact revenge, which is a dish best served cold
Indeed, the stress will take weeks off the end of your life wasting time on people like this, when you could be generating future revenues from clients you actually wanted.
A certain type of client leaves a trail of destruction in their wake wherever they go and no doubt the next account will be cursing their name in due course.
I once received a professional clearance response in which the previous accountant had signed off the letter not with ‘regards’ or similar, but “good luck”. !!! That client left me after about 12 months, with a similar sentiment in my mind.
Don't want to pay clients will resort to rubbishing what you have done in order to avoid payment.
If the amount due is relatively small in hours and £, better to focus on the positive work you do for clients that value what you do, rather than waste your valuable time on an unwanted war.
She seems bitter and burdened and using you as a release.
I would not engage in a string of exchanges. One polite neutral reply after the first email and then walk away and let your debt collectors do their work. I wouldn't have handed over any information anyway until paid in full.
You can wheel out any issues if a legal dispute unravels, which I doubt very much as she will know where her vulnerabilities lie and would also be unlikely to commit to the potential costs.
Depending how much of your fees are at stake, there will also probably come a point where you would need to consider drawing a line and walking away.
1) Don't enter into correspondence no matter how provocative she is; the more our reply the more gratification you give her
2) NEVER use debt collectors who IMHO merely stir everything up. One final demand/ LBA then MCOL: as others have said they usually pay in full immediately when the Court becomes involved.
3) Good luck
Do not reply. If she has a case re the work you did that is a separate matter she can pursue if she so wishes (and she will have to pursue two cases if two entities)
Do not muddy the water and do not inadvertently give her ammunition, effectively if she makes threats to litigate re work quality pass it to your PII and let them deal with her.
To me fee rendered, payments made towards fee ,suggest acceptance, chase the balance.
I would not use a debt collector.
Do NOT engage with her if she is 'unreasonable' which it sounds like she is.
Get advice first from your professional body.
In this case I would instruct a solicitor to recover the debt, if you are sure you have done everything correctly.
If you are not sure and what worries me is you say 'you made some judgement calls'. Even though the client may have signed everything, if you know something is not right maybe you shouldn't have completed whatever work until you got satisfactory answers or evidence.
This has happened to me in the past but I refuse to finalise anything until I can satisfy myself (whatever the deadline). I have lost some clients as a result, but you do not want these sorts of clients they are trouble