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Brightpay - where to find evidence of tax notifn

If not the agent any more

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I ran a payroll last year where the wrong tax code was applied to an employee's pay during the year. Client has moved to another accountant so I cannot access my tax code notices via Brightpay payroll. Client now thinks I was in the wrong, but I believe it was HMRC's fault.

Brightpay helpline staff don't know the answer to this - it's difficult to get hold of the really knowledgeable ones these days. Am I right in thinking there is no way I can find data via my payroll software to "prove" how a tax code change was made?

Replies (28)

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By Matrix
27th Oct 2020 15:19

I would reverse engineer it. Get them to provide the tax code notice from their personal tax account and compare it to the one you used from the date of issue. I assume you have all the payslips with all the tax codes so you know what was used and when it changed?

Obviously also explain that, whether right or wrong, the employer has to use the code issued by HMRC and it is up to the employee to adjust it by contacting HMRC.

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Replying to Matrix:
By Moonbeam
27th Oct 2020 16:01

That's a good idea. Thank you.

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By Wanderer
27th Oct 2020 15:20

Not an answer to your issue but this is exactly why I elect for tax codes to be supplied on paper.

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Replying to Wanderer:
By Moonbeam
27th Oct 2020 16:03

In future, at 31 March I will print the report on the year's tax code changes to a pdf and store just in case.
I'll do that before releasing payroll data to next accountant as well.
Believe me, I'm kicking myself for not thinking of this issue before.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Oct 2020 16:13

Ask them to reappoint you as agent so that you can deal with it.

What's the issue - if you don't mind being asked ?

PAYE doesn't change your liability. It just collects the tax earlier or later. The client would be hard pushed to show that any loss has been suffered.

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By frankfx
27th Oct 2020 17:01

I am nosey.
What code did you apply and what code was expected?
I just want to get the measure of pettiness.

Why the current accountant can not stop the nonsense is a concern too.

Let's assume it is an error on your part, but so easily rectified at their end, that they allow this time-costly indulgence is disappointing and unprofessional.

Many of us try so hard to get all things right all the time, it is relentless, then something like this arises, and we are too professional to inform ex-client to get lost.

''Finding someone ( really) knowledgeable''........ I share your frustration.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it re-emphasised the need for constant vigilance on '' document trail and action'' and developing simple in-house procedures.

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Replying to frankfx:
By Moonbeam
27th Oct 2020 17:27

No, let's not assume it was my error. Client - who is relatively new to business got a sob story from employee, who owes about 6 months worth of tax.
He didn't bother to ask current accountants, but sent me an email strongly suggesting I'd done something wrong.
Relations between us are strained, but I intend to send another email explaining my position and what I believe happened. I won't bother after that.

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By Wanderer
27th Oct 2020 17:36

Moonbeam wrote:

I ran a payroll last year where the wrong tax code was applied to an employee's pay during the year.

How / why have you concluded that the *wrong* tax code was applied?
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Replying to Wanderer:
By Moonbeam
27th Oct 2020 18:10

I didn't want to bore people. In effect I suspect the tax code was correct - 1250L but no previous pay and tax data was applied, meaning that the employee paid no tax for the remaining tax year.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Oct 2020 18:15

Moonbeam wrote:

I didn't want to bore people. In effect I suspect the tax code was correct - 1250L but no previous pay and tax data was applied, meaning that the employee paid no tax for the remaining tax year.

Ah - employee couldn't be bothered to give you his P45.

Ball batted back into their court.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By Wanderer
27th Oct 2020 18:35

Moonbeam wrote:

I didn't want to bore people. In effect I suspect the tax code was correct - 1250L but no previous pay and tax data was applied, meaning that the employee paid no tax for the remaining tax year.

Be careful, that's not what you originally said. Anyway, it now depends on:-

a) What was on P45 if this was passed across.
b) What was on new starter form.
c) What coding notices were subsequently received, and what they had on them.

Surely you have all of this on your files?

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Replying to Wanderer:
By Moonbeam
27th Oct 2020 18:49

I have paper work in my files, but not a P45 and not any copies of coding notices for the reasons I've already given.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By Wanderer
27th Oct 2020 19:46

Jeeze Moonbeam, this is like pulling teeth!

SO if no P45 was supplied look at the new starter form.
IF this justifies 1250L and there were no subsequent updates received then surely this is all a non issue from your point of view????:

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Replying to Wanderer:
By Moonbeam
28th Oct 2020 09:47

Sorry, but I don't need helpful advice on whether I got things right.

I just wanted to know if I could get a history of tax codes downloaded from HMRC's website without having to login to my agent account.

Brightpay helpline people couldn't answer the question.

But I know if the answer was yes, my helpful friends here would know.

And it seems the answer is no.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By Wanderer
28th Oct 2020 09:53

When clients come to me with a question, I don't limit myself to answering that question but also explore other avenues which may achieve the desired outcome.

Sorry but I can only conclude that there is more to this than meets the eye / you are revealing.

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JCACE
By jcace
27th Oct 2020 18:51

In BP, look at what starter information was entered, by going to employee record starter/leaver tab.
You should also be able to check history of tax codings downloaded from HMRC from the facility used to download them.

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Replying to jcace:
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By NYB
27th Oct 2020 19:12

I thought just that but if you are now not the agent i dont excpect it will let you. When you look you have to enter agents credentials

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Replying to NYB:
JCACE
By jcace
27th Oct 2020 23:20

NYB, you are quite correct.
PS, my apologies

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By HClarke
27th Oct 2020 19:18

If you look at the employee's P11, the PAYE Income Tax section shows what tax code was applied each month, which will tell you if it changed at all, and in which month.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Oct 2020 05:55

I'm a bit surprised HMRC didn't send past pay and tax details if that was the problem.

I've had these the day following submission of an FPS before now.

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By Moonbeam
28th Oct 2020 11:01

Great News! Having emailed a nitwit back and forth around 3 times, finally someone sensible at Brightpay has said they can extract the history of tax coding notices from my data, if I send it to them.
Worth knowing for the future.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By Cheshire
28th Oct 2020 11:24

Great news Moonbeam, I was just going to post that not being able to extract such historic information would be a fundamental flaw of the Brightpay system. Wonder if Moneysoft have access, they do tend to for other things. That said, I usually download and save to pdf anything that moves, just in case, because Im such a back it, back it up and back it up again kinda gal. Glad you are getting it sorted and you can stick one on your PITA ex client.

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Replying to Cheshire:
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By NYB
28th Oct 2020 11:25

Having used Brightpay for many years Im surprised at the problems you had with support. They are normally A1.

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Replying to NYB:
By Moonbeam
28th Oct 2020 11:37

Brightpay top class support staff have been added to in the last year by willing people who just don't have their experience/knowledge. Some of them aren't prepared to say they don't know and refer the matter up the chain when asked to do so.
This is not the first time I've wasted time finding out what I needed to know, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
I'm assuming the furlough scheme has taken up hours of support staff time, and am hoping this is just a temporary problem.
However, remembering the days of Sage payroll, when it took an hour or more to get through to support staff who often knew even less about their bug ridden product, I accept that issues with BP are minor compared to the Sage ones.

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Replying to Cheshire:
By Moonbeam
28th Oct 2020 11:39

It is a flaw that we cannot download the tax code data ourselves if not the agent, but I assume that not many people are in that situation.

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Replying to Cheshire:
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By legerman
28th Oct 2020 12:16

Cheshire wrote:

Wonder if Moneysoft have access, they do tend to for other things.

Woohoo, just checked and they certainly do. Just gone back to a June 2019 tax code change for a client who's payroll has ceased about a month ago and its showing in archives, so the info is hard stored.

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Replying to Moonbeam:
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By Donald MacKenzie
29th Oct 2020 11:04

See reply above from HClarke above. You can find changes to tax codes on P11.
I was not aware of that so have learnt that much today.

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By 0098087
29th Oct 2020 09:35

We use HMRC PAYE desktop viewer. Checked every morning and also use Moneysoft to check codes.

Once from the desktop viewer are saved as PDF's so we have them all..always

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