Share this content
2
5404

Business To Customer ( Norway) VAT

Do we charge VAT to Norway Private Client

Didn't find your answer?

Search AccountingWEB

We are VAT registered UK business and have been dealing with Norway private client for services and material. Do we charge VAT on our sales invoice? We have read HMRC website and spoke to HMRC but not gained any positive answers. Desperate to find a constructive answer, please.

 

Replies

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By MJShone
27th Jul 2017 12:28

For a supply of services (as opposed to goods) you need to work out the place of supply. See here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-how-to-work-out-your-place-of-supply-of-... and https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-741a-place-of-supp...

For a supply of services, assuming we're not talking about anything to do with land, which can be more complicated, you have to charge VAT to a private individual (ie not a business) in Norway, because the place of supply is where you belong ie the UK.

If what you're supplying is goods then you don't charge VAT because those goods are not being used in the UK - see here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-exports-dispatches-and-supplying-goods-a...

Thanks (1)
27th Jul 2017 12:54

Does the service involve installing the material?

You're not really giving a lot away, are you?

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 15:30

Yes it is involving installing the material, the flight costs and all other allowances are paid by our client in Norway
Thank you

Thanks (0)
to Nayamummy
27th Jul 2017 16:35

Sweet Jesus! What was "the material"? Where was it installed? Don't say frigging Norway!

No fudging wonder you couldn't get a sensible response out of HMRC!

Thanks (0)
avatar
27th Jul 2017 13:51

Well if it is a supply of services under the general B2C rule, the place of supply is Norway which is not in the EU and the supply is therefore Outside the Scope with credit. That means no VAT is chargeable.
However, like PNL I would want to understand what the supply is if it involves materials?

Thanks (0)
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 13:57

Tell us more about this general B2C rule Shaun? ;)

Thanks (1)
avatar
27th Jul 2017 14:11

PNL - you can look it up I am sure?? A man as well versed as you!!

Thanks (0)
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 14:23

It was just that my legislation seemed to be saying something different from yours though Shaun.

Mine says that the general B2C rule is that the place of supply is where the supplier belongs (ie in the UK, currently in the EU). Obviously there are overrides.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By gphemy
27th Jul 2017 14:27

No need for PNL to look it up, as MJShone has already provided the link, which is quite explicit. I summarise:
If you supply services to a non-business customer, the place of supply is the place where the supplier belongs. (Exceptions apply).

That appears to be the opposite of your view, so, pray tell about the general B2C rule.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to gphemy
27th Jul 2017 14:41

how explicit does it need to be!! Notice 741a

12.1 Introduction

This section applies if:
•you belong in the UK
•you supply B2C services to customers who belong outside the EU
•those services are included in the list in paragraph 12.2

Where this applies, your services are supplied where your customer belongs and so are outside the scope of VAT. It’s the nature of the service that you should consider, rather than your professional qualification or status.

Additional rules apply to B2C letting on hire of goods, telecommunications services and radio and television broadcasting services (see section 13).

Where this section applies you should obtain sufficient factual evidence showing that your customer belongs outside the EU.

Thanks (0)
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 14:51

And therein lies the problem Shaun.

VATA 1994, s 7A(2) says that, subject to Schedule 4A, a B2B service is made where the person being supplied belongs; OTHERWISE (ie the default for B2C) it is where the supplier belongs.

I accept that para 16 of Schedule 4A MIGHT apply, but we don't yet know what has been supplied.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By gphemy
27th Jul 2017 14:46

But the rule in 12.1 only applies to the services listed in 12.2 of 741a!

Thanks (0)
avatar
to gphemy
27th Jul 2017 14:51

and........

Thanks (0)
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 14:58

Well it does rather beg the question is the supply to which the OP is referring on the list in paragraph 12.2 Shaun?

If you are of the opinion that it is? How do you know what is being supplied? Please share the information with the rest of us.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 15:06

PNL - unlike the fish I don't rise to the bait - but good luck with the fishing!!

Thanks (0)
By Ruddles
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 15:50

Come on, Shaun - be a man and admit that you got it wrong. The general (ie basic) rule for a B2C supply of services is that the place of supply is where the supplier belongs. The supplies that you refer to are exceptions to the basic/general rule. So - unless you are aware that the supplies in this case fall within one or more of the exceptions - the place of supply is the UK.

You're doing a "Basil" (or is it a "Justin") - 'because the OP has not mentioned that the exclusions do not apply it is reasonable to assume that the exclusions do apply'.

Thanks (1)
to Ruddles
27th Jul 2017 15:59

The thing is, I think we're going in a direction where Shaun will end up being right.

Thanks (0)
By mrme89
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 16:14

There's time for there to be overseas subsidiaries doing bits of the work, different registrations, and the materials to actually be an event ... on a boat ... in the middle of the pacific.
I think there's plenty of time for you all to be wrong.

Thanks (1)
By Ruddles
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 16:28

Yes, but by accident rather than be design. And that is no way to offer professional advice.

Thanks (1)
avatar
to Ruddles
27th Jul 2017 16:35

Ohh dear pray tell me where I am wrong. As to doing a Basil, i am sure he might accuse someone of doing a "Ruddles"

Thanks (0)
By Ruddles
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 17:11

Well, as has been pointed out you may well end up being right, in which case I'd have been wrong to accuse you of being wrong.

The issue is that you stated, in definitive manner, that based on the general rule for B2C services the place of supply will be in Norway. Based on the the general rule the place of supply will be in the UK. The place of supply will be in Norway only if the services are of a particular nature. Since no-one has yet clarified the nature of the services I fail to see how you can arrive at a definitive conclusion as to the place of supply.

Do you see your problem?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By gphemy
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 17:14

While PNL might well be right in saying "The thing is, I think we're going in a direction where Shaun will end up being right." - and I of course agree - in my view you _were_ wrong to say "if it is a supply of services under the general B2C rule, the place of supply is Norway".

The excerpt from 741a which you quoted to support your case is prefixed:
"12. B2C services of a professional, technical, financial, intellectual or other intangible nature supplied to customers outside the EU"

By contrast, Section 6 of 741a goes so far as to say:
"The place of supply rules contain default or ‘general’ rules, one for supplies to business customers B2B and one for supplies to consumers B2C. There are a number of exceptions to the general rules and there are special rules to cover these.
[...]
The general rule for B2C supplies of services is that the place of supply is where the supplier belongs, irrespective of the location of their customer."

Note the tell-tale words 'general rule'! Over to you...

Thanks (0)
to shaun king
27th Jul 2017 17:17

Let's assume for the moment that the material being supplied is boot polish, and the OP has travelled to Norway to polish somebody's boots. Where is the place of supply Shaun?

Thanks (0)
By Ruddles
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 17:56

That will depend on whether or not the stool on which the OP sits whilst spitting on and polishing someone else's footwear constitutes a fixed establishment ;¬)

Thanks (0)
avatar
By gphemy
to Portia Nina Levin
27th Jul 2017 20:42

That won't wash, they all wear clogs, don't they?

And as for VAT there, I believe that MOMS the word....

...did anyone see where I put my coat?

Thanks (0)
31st Jul 2017 14:27

Was it worth it, Nayamummy? None of this will be of any more use to you than your dealings with HMRC. My advice would be to appoint an accountant who can guide you through the enormous complexities of the place of supply rules for VAT on both goods and services, the normal rules, the exceptions and everything else in between.

Thanks (0)
Share this content