Calculation of variable hours for JSS

calculating higher of average hours or same hours worked for JSS

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I see for JSS the calculations for pay for employees with no set hours is to be similar for flexi furlough, in that it's to be the higher of the average of hours worked for the previous tax year, or hours worked for the same period last year (or average to date for employees more recently employed).  For furlough calculations we just based it on the average for the previous year as we would not have had time to go over every employee's record to check the same period the previous year.  However, with this new JSS I suppose we should make more of an effort.  Have any of you found a way to check hours worked for the same period the previous year relatively quickly to determine which calculation was the higher?  I've at least 18 employers with 50 employees each who all work irregular hours and are all paid on a weekly basis.  I don't know how on earth I would find the time to check records of 900 employees every week.  Did any of you find an easy way to do it?  Any suggestions welcome.  Thanks 

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By Paul Crowley
23rd Oct 2020 17:23

Pass the issue back to the employer
Perhaps the employer would then appreciate work already done on prior scheme

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Barbara G
23rd Oct 2020 17:28

It would be a lovely idea, but unfortunately I can't do that. They rely on us to process their payrolls and I suppose we would have the computerised records anyway, so we should be able to do it, but it would take an enormous amount of time, which is why for flexi furlough calculations we just kept with the average hours for the previous year tax, unless an employee complained, only two did. However, strictly speaking they should have been paid more on occasion based on what they got paid for the same week the previous year. How about everyone else? How did you all do the calculations in a way which wasn't too time consuming? Any ideas?

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By JHC
23rd Oct 2020 23:46

Ours were all manually input onto spreadsheets so that we had the monthly hours and yearly hours to refer back to, but all are monthly paid and in much lower numbers than yourself. Even with our fewer number of employees it has been very very time consuming, as you've said there was a mix of 'same period last year' and 'tax year average used' However most of our variable hours employees have sadly (for them) been laid off.

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By Matrix
24th Oct 2020 08:25

I assume you agreed this methodology with the employers so will need to come up with a pragmatic solution again. I would personally not cut corners though. You either need the employer to gather all the figures for the comparison or you need to advise how much you would charge.

Sorry no easy answer.

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By jonibarnes
24th Oct 2020 12:01

I did the same (used average and agreed with employers) I don’t think it can be done that way this time though, the 20% hours worked is a moving target when compared to the average/same period and finally period to 23/9/20. Hours worked will need to be compared to all three to ensure eligibility.

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By NYB
24th Oct 2020 16:15

I, too, have found this onerous even for 3 clients (9,9 &25). I asked a friend who does larger payrolls as to how do large firms cope. She muttered about various high level computer packages.. There must be a way but I feel that you will need cooperation from your client. They must have the current hours to give to you & they can back track a year & then produce a spreadsheet which doesn't need much on it other than the two lots of hours. Its hours based. . It's a rolling programme unfortunately . I complained myself being a ZERO hours employee with a very large well known employer. They put mine right. But not my colleages (100 of them). I checked with a few of them. And we were talking about £500 a month in some cases.
I expect you are like me - you are capable of doing o it but don't want to, as it gives you another huge job. I "pull back" and think I'm employed to process the payroll - the employer can get me the details.

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By mumpin
24th Oct 2020 18:00

Are you able to download last year's pay by employee and then by pay period then paste it into an Excel workbook?

Then you just need to put =Average(x..y) under the appropriate colum (ie. hours worked or gross pay)

Still fairly time consuming but a bit of a shortcut. Very easy with Moneysoft but I would suspect that you are using Sage...

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By Barbara G
24th Oct 2020 21:47

Yes, I am using Sage. There are various reports I can use, but a lot of manipulation required, but I'll just have to do it. It's not that I don't want to, it's just there are not enough hours in the day. It's Saturday night and I'm in the office working away. I was here at 6am this morning trying to clear the backlog of furlough claims. Yet another weekend gone

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By NYB
24th Oct 2020 22:02

I empathise. Over the months I looked forward to 30th June - original Furlough end. Then became desperate for 31st October. Now it’s all extended once more. Dare I hope for 30th April. Thank God I’m on the south coast so am only a little bit affected at the moment. But I’m under no illusion that the situation won’t worsen here.

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By jonibarnes
25th Oct 2020 12:50

I have quite a lot of weekly payrolls and find the main bind is the need to compare calendar days not payroll weeks - (taking part of two weeks)- why they chose to make it such a time consuming process I will never know.

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Replying to jonibarnes:
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By Barbara G
26th Oct 2020 07:40

How on earth do you find time to do that? Gosh, I was thinking it was to be compared to the same tax week as last year, not the same calendar week, but calendar week is worse. I've been sitting since the very small hours trying to interpret HMRC's worked examples issued on 22nd October. How do they come up with a figure £945 for hours worked for the fixed hours employee on page 13? I get £934.62 or £964.29 depending on which method used. How we'll get through a usual day's work today and also calculate weekly payroll due on 2nd November, which will include both furlough and JSS, I've no idea. Apparently more guidance for calculations to be issued by HMRC before the end of October, which is too late for most of us.

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Replying to Barbara G:
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By jonibarnes
26th Oct 2020 17:13

I can’t get back to the 945 either, I get 947.21 ( 2250x43.55/30x29)

I think I’m correct about splitting the weeks, but I doubt everything that comes out of my mouth at the moment.

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By PandoraSleeps
26th Oct 2020 16:44

Our payroll software runs detailed reports which I have included as a new tab in our calculation spreadsheets and then done formulae to pull the information through. You just update the month each time. Will do something similar for JSS. When they say period to 23 September I am not sure yet whether they mean that exact date, which will be a pain, or last pay period prior to that date.

PS this took a while to set up but it never occurred to me not to do it and just use an average. I think that if HMRC find employees have been underpaid as a result of not doing the calculation in line with the Direction, they can ask for the grant back.

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