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Can I Invoice my own ltd company as a sole trader?

Can I Invoice my own ltd company as a sole trader?

Im a sole trader and director of a limited company.

My sole trader business is a recording studio.

Im sole director of my own limited company.

I'm the sole shareholder also of this limited company.

seperate from this as a sole trader i invoice many outside clients and companies for use of my studio and personal skills.

likewise my limited company is a record label and pays and invoices many other companies to use their studios and services.

this would be a deduction to my corporate tax as would any invoice paid for the running of the limited company business.

so my question is.......

can i invoice my limited company for use of my studio without worrying about IR35

also in terms of the record label (limited company) im signed to the label as a recording artist

can i pay myself the artist, an advance, the same way a normal record label would?

can i sell the rights to my music to the company for any amount negotiable with myself?

can i sell or transfer intelectual assets for a particular or any amount to my limited company at any time without tax implications?

or what are the tax implications of doing this?

what are the tax implications of using any of these set ups especially if the total profits of the limited company get soaked up by invoices to my studio for services, advance payments for contractual agreements of artist and the payment of intelectual assets.

especially if i only invoice myself enough to stay below the tax threshold therefore paying neither tax on the limited company or myself.

 

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13th Sep 2017 21:34

I'll pick just one of your many questions: "can i sell or transfer intelectual assets for a particular or any amount to my limited company at any time without tax implications?"

No of course you can't.

Others will say the same as me, albeit with more style: go see a tax advisor. They don't bite, and they may save you more than they will charge.

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By Ruddles
13th Sep 2017 22:19

"can i sell the rights to my music to the company for any amount negotiable with myself?"

Yes

Your accountant and lawyer will explain the implications.

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14th Sep 2017 00:19

Why would you invoice people? Do you actually charge for your services then?

How odd. I would have assumed you would just offer your services and your studio for free to anybody that asked.

If that's not the case and you do actually charge for your time, then I suppose it begs the question: why in the name of creation would you expect us not to do the same?

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14th Sep 2017 07:58

The last paragraph is worthy of further investigation to be fair. It seems a great way of avoiding tax altogether and I think I'll take the scheme on board.

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By Mr_awol
14th Sep 2017 18:04

Ah, the music industry. Constantly moaning about theft of their intellectual property but never one to shy away from a freebie themselves.

There was a particular FaceBook post which made me chuckle. It complained that people will spend $5 (yes, it was American drivel) on a coffee but wouldn't pay $15 for an album, preferring instead to copy it from a mate/napster/wherever. This, of course, ignored the fact that to get the coffee someone had to:
- plant a coffee seed
-wait 3-4 years for it to grow, nurturing it all the time
- harvest the cherries (by hand, usually)
- dry the beans
- mill the beans
- export it to the UK (US presumably in the FB example using $)
- Roast the beans
- Grind the coffee
- Brew it using what is effectively a big expensive kettle
- Present it to me with a little biscuit and maybe some milk.
- pay for an expensive shop for me to drink it in (or put it in a paper cup)
Whereas the music artist dreams up a song, picks up an instrument and sings away.

Anyway, I think the anonymous OP should post a link to a site from which we can download all material produced by themselves as artist, owned by their record label, or recorded at their studio for free. Then we can think about answering their freeloading questions in return.

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14th Sep 2017 21:43

I think this sounds like a marvellous tax avoidance scheme. I'm surprised no one thought of it before. I think the OP is missing a trick. He should find out what the cap is for housing benefit before deciding what level to keep his turnover at and get his application in. If necessary his sole-trader business can pay his LTD Co in cash from money made on Ebay in his nephews name. I'm not even charging for this advice. I'm trying to get my income down to a level where I can qualify for milk tokens so I'm going to do a lot of free stuff and sell boot leg CD's on the Sunday market to pay for the gin.

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to Jackie0802
14th Sep 2017 23:49

Quote:

I think this sounds like a marvellous tax avoidance scheme. I'm surprised no one thought of it before. I think the OP is missing a trick. He should find out what the cap is for housing benefit before deciding what level to keep his turnover at and get his application in. If necessary his sole-trader business can pay his LTD Co in cash from money made on Ebay in his nephews name. I'm not even charging for this advice. I'm trying to get my income down to a level where I can qualify for milk tokens so I'm going to do a lot of free stuff and sell boot leg CD's on the Sunday market to pay for the gin.

dont be a snob
its extremely scary for people coming off benefits starting a business for the first time

secondly, no tax is really being avoided if he was operating as a sole trader he still wouldnt pay any tax as you dont get taxed on the first 11k as a sole trader but get taxed on everything as a limited company.

if your business is only projected to turn over 4 - 15k these are good things to think about, it enables you to have the perks of both sole trader and limited company at a low level of finacial operation that doesnt affect tax in the slightest

a business operating at this low level can be crippled in unnesersary tax bills and home rent they cant afford to pay but would be getting help for if they had a normal low paid job

shame on your comments

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to Alex Sawyer
15th Sep 2017 02:40

Why are you suddenly referring to yourself in the third person?

But your point is perfectly valid. If you have no wish to pay tax just make sure you don't make any money. An excellent philosophy, grasshopper.

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to Tim Vane
16th Sep 2017 12:32

thats completely inaccurate

its more like if your business is projected to make very little in the first few years as a limited company but dont want to operate as a sole trader then this is a good soloution to do so without paying unnesersary tax and still survive.

its not a case of aiming to earn very little its a case of being realist with your first 2 years turnover and trying not drown. Record labels rarely make anything in the forst 2 years so this has to taken into consideration when setting one up and having alot of outgoings,

ask yourself this would you really wanna pay the tax man a 20% of your entire 4k anual turnover.

when a sole trader wouldnt be.....

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to Alex Sawyer
15th Sep 2017 06:49

You sir, are hilarious

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By Ruddles
to Alex Sawyer
15th Sep 2017 09:28

If you think that running a company with projected turnover of £4k to £15k is a good idea ...

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to Ruddles
16th Sep 2017 12:20

this amount is most small companies expected turn over for the first 2 years morron...

doesnt mean to say that in the third and fourth year your not hitting up to 140k turn over and none of this scenario is applicable

this quite normal for a record label as you spend the first few years spending money and not making any as it takes time to make a return in this field....

but ignoranace is bliss eh.......

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to Alex Sawyer
16th Sep 2017 12:34

TOP DEFINITION
morron
An incorrect spelling of the word 'moron' Used exclusively by true morons in all forms of print as well as the internet. This misspelling is a clear indication that the user is not just a moron but also an illiterate ignoramus incapable of intelligent intercourse with the rest of humanity.

Not my words, but . . .

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By Ruddles
to Alex Sawyer
16th Sep 2017 13:00

I find it difficult to take with any seriousness the comments of someone whose spelling and grammatical skills are reminiscent of a primary schoolchild.

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15th Sep 2017 09:47

yes shame on you Tim!....you should have instead advised that the most tax efficient way to run this business is to simply not declare the money...damn it, Alex is onto something...if he is not 'working' then he can't claim all those benefits at the top rate.

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15th Sep 2017 10:04

Honestly buddy, you can get on your high horse as much as you like, but running your business this way is not simple and you really need professional advice.

If you can't afford to pay for this, you probably shouldn't have set up a Ltd co as that is when things start to get complicated.

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19th Sep 2017 10:19

You say "its extremely scary for people coming off benefits starting a business for the first time". I expect it is. And I think you were silly to set up two (one as a sole trade and one as a company).

You're not going to get answers to your questions in this forum. You need to sit down with someone and talk it through.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but at the moment I don't think you know what it is (how much) you don't know. If you knew the size of the gaps, you'd do something about it. Here https://www.gov.uk/set-up-business (and do work through the related pages) is enough to let you know how much you don't know.

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