caravan - capital loss

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A Client has sold a static caravan - capital allowances were never claimed (it didnt meet letting rules and was on a residential site)

The caravan was let to the public and had an element of private use, its been sold for a loss - question is can the loss be put on the tax return as a capital loss?

It was sold for £13000 and being a caravan i would estimate the useful life to be less than 50 years.

thanks for any input - 

Jonathan 

 

 

 

Replies (58)

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By Tax Dragon
22nd Jun 2017 17:51

I knew the OP was going to revisit this question in February. I hadn’t expected the rest of us to, come June.

Since we’re looking back, this: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/private-residence-relief-mob... may well be no less relevant than a case about whether a motorhome is a caravan for VAT purposes. (Noticing that the most recent link was also headed “VAT” I couldn’t even be bothered to read on - Justin, you do know that the question wasn’t a VAT one?)

Loving the song selection, Portia. Could have done with something frozen yesterday. I inherited a Galileo thermometer from my Dad and the temperature was off the scale – all the floaty things had sunk.

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
23rd Jun 2017 10:24

Justin,

Moveable or not moveable:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/W3QAUamt7Lg/maxresdefault.jpg

Red herring: it was moved in the early 1800s.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
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By Justin Bryant
23rd Jun 2017 12:40

The case was interesting as it showed that even if there is no right for the owner to move it it's still a chattel in the judge's view. I am not sure what other point you and others are trying to make here. Like domicile, chattels/fixtures are a general law issue, not a tax issue per se (tax treatment just follows the general law treatment). Hence it is probably not a good idea to rely on guidance from HMRC's manuals nor anonymous posters on this website etc.

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By Tax Dragon
23rd Jun 2017 14:11

Hi Justin, since I’m here now… the point is that the loss would be under TCGA, which Act (outside of s262) makes no reference to chattels. In particular, ibid s45 does not prevent a loss for wasting chattels, it exempts a gain “on the disposal of, or of an interest in, an asset which is tangible movable property and which is a wasting asset.”

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By Tax Dragon
26th Jun 2017 09:15

I must correct myself. TCGA s262 is commonly referred to as the "chattel exemption" - it is even titled thus in the legislation - but the section itself makes no reference to chattels and instead excludes [subject to conditions] a gain (and hence a loss) accruing on a disposal of an asset which is tangible movable property.

You cannot always believe what you read in the headlines.

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
26th Jun 2017 10:23

If you go back and read my posts Justin, you will see that I have agreed with you on a number of occasions that a caravan is a chattel.

I am disputing that it is necessarily tangible moveable property though; although I accept that it is both property and tangible.

Like Cleopatra's Needle and London Bridge, the fact that it has been moved and could be moved again, does not necessarily mean that it is moveable.

As has been noted - although I am sure I noted it long ago - the the test of the legislation is not whether it is a chattel, but whether it is tangible moveable property, which are not necessarily synonymous.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
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By Justin Bryant
26th Jun 2017 10:55

I am not sure we disagree in that case (I thought someone above was saying a moveable caravan is not a chattel, which is plainly wrong).

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7om
By Tom 7000
25th Jan 2023 22:38

How can you have an argument about whether a caravan is movable or not, when it has wheels on it.....

Lol

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